Floating a Floor...?

[87PRS]

Hey Guys, some may remember my "Got Wood" post of several months back, well my son started framing the new room onto our existing studio and now he has completely dismantled the stucture saving the wood (thank you), we are moving into a new home and I will have a barn...not an ol' wood barn, it has a concrete floor and is metal 28X50, only a couple years old...does anyone here think I need to float a floor or just the walls, the new studio construction will be inside the barn, mostly just double wall layout and one sliding glass door. I've also been thinking about an elevated control room?? Ceiling height is now no problem up to 24'. I'll be using alot of J Sayers ideas here, with angles, absorption and reflective surfaces, maybe just float a drum riser? thanks

[sabianq]

very envious here!
sounds like you have a great project going there.
where abouts are you located?

you have to post pictures

I would suggest that you do not need to float the floor as the floor is resting on the ground and is made of concrete, the purpose of floating a floor is to Isolate the sound from the rest of the structure, being on ground level it seems to me that the structure will have no impact on the transmission of sound through the rest of the building. but then having a concrete floor, you need to look at LF absorption and reflection. normally this is not an issue with such high ceilings. I would not float the floor because this could cause issues in the future when the floor becomes unstable due to age and has a tendency to creak and moan as you walk around on it. A lot of research has gone into Floated flooring over the past few years and most of it suggests that the best systems are separate poured concrete slabs coming in first and then a single concrete slab coming in second, floated floors can be at the best a nuisance and at the worst illegal.

IMHO spend your time, money and energy on frequency reflection and acoustics.
And if you are building a Vocal or instrument studio room, then build up your walls with multiple layers of gypsum board on staggered studs.

you can cover the floor with 1/8th inch neoprene and then cover that with your flooring.

Cork is coming out as a great sound absorption flooring solution.

I second Sayers! His forum for studio design is very cool and informative.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/Pages/Studios.htm

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

[ShaneC]

I disagree. Floating the floor has the advantage of seperating low freq's which travel easily along solid surfaces such as concrete. Although, it may not be necessary to float the whole studio, the drum room and especially the control room would definately benefit from that kind of isolation. My biggest concern for your space, if it was mine, would be the metal exterior.

[87PRS]

thanks guys, both of you have viable thoughts regarding my situation. i will post a pic soon sabianq, still at present address, next time we go out to new home site I'll take along a camera, i am located in NW Florida 60 miles north of Panama City, MF.

Floating the whole floor of the studio is out of the question, it would cost me too much dinero, but i do think on the same lines as shanec, in floating the drums and keeping the space lively. My present drum room is deadened with absortion materials eg Auralex, and carpeting and I don't like the sound I am getting, so i'll start with more wood this time and work that way.

A vocal booth, hum, I've also got a vocal booth in present studio, but I'm leaning more toward using the drum booth or live room for voice over, as my vocal booth has turned into a storage compartment, and vocals are being done more in the live room. I.m thinking drum room floated for this.

not to much concern over metal structure as it will not be part of the studio, think of it as sliding your studio under a carport, just to keep the elements away. the studio will be seperate structure with-in.

so...what do you all think about wood laminate flooring? OR tile, even ceramic tile? wood for the drum room floor (floated) and walls, and tile floor in the live room. right now I have control/mix station in live room with guitars, keys, and i am use to mixing this way, with drums isolated. having a raised control room separate from live room looking down at players would be cool.

I'm taking glass out of present studio, its just a 40X40, but man i paid 100bucks for it, double laminate, so it is going. i found that using an 8" joint knife I can actually just scrape the Aurelex off the wall, leaves glue look, but removes it with-out damage.

back to topic....floating the drum room, and the control room should give me better response and frequency control? what if I just floated a drum riser? sabianq there's is no reason to be envious, man I am in a big ol' mess

[sabianq]

LOL

I love big messes, it means something is getting done.

you should look at cork as an option for flooring.

I just laid a tile floor in my studio (for the wet bar my wife wanted).
talk about some serious resonance. but i did lay carpet pad and a thin industrial burber carpet to contrast the tile. this is all covering a concrete slab.

before i laid the carpet, it sounded like i was inside of a spring reverb.
after the carpet was down, things tightened up quite well.

and for sound isolation from the outside, two windows need to be isolated, a big picture window and a smaller window.
i am using a piece of 3/4 inch lexan hinged to cover and lock aginst the smaller window and will be removing the large picture window and replacing it with 4 inch glass block.
this should do well for sound isolation and help with security.


i was browsing around the john Sayers forums and found this for you.
there is a stupid amount of information here with many different opinions on floated flooring.

to much for me to dig through.

check it out.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=839

[ShaneC]

Originally Posted by 87PRS

having a raised control room separate from live room looking down at players would be cool.

Another benefit is having the wiring run underneath.
The metal concerns me because it offers virtually no sound inhibition and when there is rain, it produces an aweful noise. It seems to me that you'd have to build another layer in between the studio and the metal exterior.

[vulcan_dc]

dudes, i think shane does have a point here.... i am thinking as well... a loud drummer and there could be one hellava resonance build inbetween the studio and the metal barn... dont know if it would start to interfere within the studio.... hmm.... <in deep thought>... ... 'might have to put in some sub absorbtion stuff in between the two structures.... or build another structure inbetween like shane says.....

hey, you know... this could be good discussion with dudes at sayers or with Ethan Winer...

regards...

[GZsound]

There is actually a very easy inexpensive way to float a floor. Laminate flooring, for example "floats" on a layer of plastic bubble material that costs as little as a dime per square foot.

I put down two layers of this product, mine was called Pergo Quiet Step underlayment, and then layed tongue and groove plywood over it to effectively float the floor.

You could easily just install laminate flooring over the underlayment, which is how it's designed to be installed, and you would have effectively "floated" the floor.

Laminate flooring is very reasonable cost these days and easy to install. And you are supposed to leave a gap around the edges anyway..which effectively isolates the floor from the concrete.

Concrete WILL transmit low frequencies and is not a good flooring material.

[ShaneC]

Originally Posted by GZsound

There is actually a very easy inexpensive way to float a floor. Laminate flooring, for example "floats" on a layer of plastic bubble material that costs as little as a dime per square foot.

I put down two layers of this product, mine was called Pergo Quiet Step underlayment, and then layed tongue and groove plywood over it to effectively float the floor.

You could easily just install laminate flooring over the underlayment, which is how it's designed to be installed, and you would have effectively "floated" the floor.

Excellent...

[vulcan_dc]

oh yeah... thanks for sharing this GZ....

i need to have one of these...

[GZsound]

Thanks.. !

I have discovered that being on a tight budget leads to all kinds of innovative solutions.

I floated my walls on neoprene carpet pad.. quite inexpensive. I used resiliant channel to hang sheetrock on all walls and ceiling.. quite inexpensive.

What I did was talk to building contractors that build big dollar condo's and ask them how they got good sound isolation between units..

[87PRS]

thanks GZ I like the Pergo idea, cost effective and would create a beneficial "floating" system and isolate the floor from walls. I'm still trying to visualize the impact the recording room structure would actually have on the metal surroundings. Even at 16 foot ceilings there would be a 12 foot air gap between both "roof" structures, wouldn't this air space give some isolating qualities?? The rain....indeed would wreak havok on the metal roof...most cost effective is don't record when its raining rain in Florida comes down hard and fast, most of time accompanied by lightening strikes, not even a good time to turn the gear on. A structure over a structure with-in a structure seems pretty expensive, and I was thinking of sometimes putting the guitarist outside in the barn to get that "live" sound haha. What have I got myself into this time. All the input is helpful, thanks alot!

[Bops2000]

Originally Posted by 87PRS

...... was thinking of sometimes putting the guitarist outside in the barn to get that "live" sound haha. What have I got myself into this time. All the input is helpful, thanks alot!

LOL make sure He/She wears a metal hat, now I know what to do with 'virtuosos'...
by the way, I use a home depot bought laminate floor,
did it for looks and sound go figure-a lucky guess
I found it to be about 200 bucks for a 10 by 14 room..

[jmail]

Watch-out for the goats, iffen yuh put the guitarists out in the barn... They like goats...

[87PRS]

dang jmail ...all the guitarists I know love women and smoke, oh an a col'one ps no goats aloud...unless its made by Pontiac! edited