Reason vs. Fruity Loops

[nomis]

I know that most people would say Reason is a more powerful app, but is it the best fit for someone like me-

I've been using Acid 4 and Sound Forge 6 to produce loop-based ectronic music. I would like to expand the source of my sounds (ie, make my own bass loops, beat loops, synth loops, etc. by using midi controllers to record alongside other loops in Acid)

Here's what I heard so far:
Get Reason because:
-sounds better than FL
-Acid now has Rewire
-Reason has Redrum. FL does not have a full drum machine

Get FL because:
-learing curve is steep for someone that makes loop-based music
-does not need rewire to work in Acid
-easier to produce loops than in Reason

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[This message has been edited by nomis (edited 05-30-2003).]

[grob2]

If you don't mind cluttering your computer a little bit, download the free demos and give them a try. Others can give you their own lists of pros and cons, but your opinions formed from the demos will be more useful for you. For what it's worth, I just picked up Reason a few weeks ago as an impulse buy (found a special for $219 on the net), and I haven't had a problem with the learning curve (one of your points for looking at Fruity). It's pretty intuitive to drop in samples and to move/manipulate loops.

[Xabiton]

Since when did you need rewire to take wav files into acid rewire is just the lazy way out

[bombastique]

Lazy way out?

How little you seem to know about Rewire and how it saves time compared to exporting/importing audio files.

[BASSsic]

What I like about Reason:

It looks like hardware.

Easy to use, but you'll never stop learning what it can do.

Sequencer is one of the best, easiest to use I've come across.

The Redrum does rock.

As do all the modules.


Now, as you may know, Reason does NOT support VST plug ins, you may see this as a bad thing, I se this as a good thing, I would rather work with Reason's great modules and have a stable prog, than start getting crashes and freezes due to poorly coded VSTs, and loosing unsaved work. Out of the thousands of VSTs out there, theres only about 10 decent ones anyway.

[Akicita]

Could you tell me a little bit about Rewire--a basic description of what it does?

Reason seems a bit difficult to me BECAUSE it's so powerful. The Reason tutorial CD is brilliant, though, and well worth it.

What I strongly dislike about Reason is the following:

1. It can take MIDI in from my synth to arrange its own notes and play them with its own patch sounds, but it cannot sequence out to my synth in return.

2. It can't use .wav files for loops. WTF?? .Wavs are the standard! I suppose this was a tactic to get people to buy Recycle, just to convert .wavs into their own format. Freakin' snobs!

3. The new vocoder isn't intuitive, at least not to me. They assume you already know how to use it, and then just instruct you on what the settings do. But someone like me who's never used it before is just SOL. Even Propellerhead's own "Vocoding 101" online tutorial is a wreck--no details on HOW to work it, what modules to patch it to, how to load primary and soundmap files together, etc. For some of you I'm probably confused by something you find elementary, but since I don't have your experience, I'm baffled.

[bombastique]

Akicita - a couple things you may want to know.

1. Reason doesn't allow for midi output - that's just the way it is. Reason doesn't claim to be everything for everyone.

2. You CAN use .wav files for loops - you just have to use them in NN19 or NNXT and it requires that you know the BPM and how to loop properly. The reason that Dr. Rex uses only Rex files isn't because they are forcing you to use Rex's, it's due to the functionality of Dr. Rex - to get loops to play back properly no matter what the tempo is, it requires you to use REX files. They didn't do this to be snobby - they did it so that it works properly!

3. I'm not sure what you're confused about - the tutorial gives you the concepts, basic steps and examples on how it works - I don't know how they could be more instructive, other than coming over to your house and showing you how it works.

Maybe you should post your specific questions about the vocoder here and I'll help you get it going.

[bombastique]

Oh yes - Rewire is just a way for applications to 'link' to each other, sharing a common transport and being able to stream audio and midi from one application to another. You can stream audio FROM the slave to the master, but not the reverse. You can stream midi both ways (assuming both applications support this...).

[Sugarbaker]

Reason is great... I use as a VST plug in... sort of. With rewire, you can use it along side your other softsynth/instruments in programs like Nuendo 2.1 or Cubase SX. I think this is great because Reason is almost always a secondary tool for me. Plus, if you are using it as your primary software package, you can sync tempos and such with other rewire capable programs... so if you ever decided to add a vocal line for instance, you would be set to go because the transports of both programs are linked together as well. Hope this helps.

[Bops2000]

my opinion reason is just an applianclike a refrigerator in a hip hop household..
never take it personal

[toorglick]

A bit late to the party, but I thought I'd chime in:

I've been using Fruity Loops for several months now and I love how intuitive and easy it is to use. The creative process is not in anyway compromised when you have something in your head and you want to get it down quickly.

I tried Reason for the first time last week and it seemed just the opposite of Fruity Loops. What's with all of this wiring you have to do before you can hear a module? What's up with the sequencer? There's too much crap to clutter up the screen. What's up with the excessive proprietary formats that make getting something down a pain in the ass?

Anyway, those are my impressions of both. I think a lot of Reason fans underestimate the power of Fruity Loops, and now FL Producer and Studio. There's little I saw in Reason you can't do in Fruity Loops, and anything you can do in Fruity Loops is more standardized so it tranfers to other applications easily (.wav files, VST and DX effects and instruments, MIDI files). Fruity Loops can also control your outboard gear, something I don't believe Reason can do.

[Iceberg]

nomis,
OK, heres my $.02
I ,like you, came frome the acid environment and gui. The beauty of all this rewire stuff is that you can still use acid for your loop based audio and use Reason for your midi. I do this with Nuendo. You can also get same kinda results with vsti's, but they do seem less stable and they tax your computer a lot. I have never had reason crash, and thats great coding.
Example of a use,
Use reason to create midi drum tracks, bass, Rhodes, and some horns. The when you rewire you have all those tracks in Acid, or in my case nuendo. You now can mix them in nuendo, add vst effexts to them, just like an audio track. You then can record all your vocals into nuendo (I hated recording into acid), your guitars, some purcussion and then mix down with nuendo.
Reason will in no way limit you. It will expand your resources.
Toorglick,
Every software has its pros and cons. If you like fruity loops, then use it. I personally feel like I am playing with a toy. Thats not to say it doesnt sound good. I think it sounds great. It kinda felt like mixing on a Tascam four track cassette, and then doing a project on a Control 24 in the same day. I just dont prefer the gui.
bombastique,
You can also use loops with redrum, and you can create rex files with recycle. i can take a classical guitar for instance and put a section of that phrase on each of the keys on the midi controller (the number of keys you use depends on the number of slices in the audio you make.

IMHO Reason, Rewire and a audio program that supports rewire is one of the bigger advancements in digital audio in quite sometime.
I cant wait till acid can be a rewire slave and not just a host. Then I could rewire acid to nuendo and do loop based stuff in there as well. Or maybe use nuendo, reason
and acid in the same project. No thats gonna be sick.

Peace, Love and all thats Funky,
Sir Bergersworth

[howie15]

Chalk me up on the Reason side. I haven't used FL so i can't say anything bad about and won't...but I love Reason. The only difficulty learning the program was that I thought too hard about it. Once I realized how simple it is life is great. I have Reason Rewired with Sonar 2.2 on my Athalon PC and my new G4 Powerbook and Digi 002 are both in the mail as we speak so I'll have Reason Rewired to ProTools also, now that version 6.x supports rewire. Life will be grand!
Howie