DAW setup by ADK

[Emagine]

Hey guys/girls,

Scott at ADK setup a system for me under $800. I was wondering if I should go with it? Please help me out. I will be using the Presonus Firestation and will be doing vocal recording ONLY!
http://www.adkproaudio.com/systems/system_review.cfm?saved_id=1896

Thanks,
Emagine

[Ghazi]

Case: KC-7101B ($48 w/350w power supply included – dealsonic.com)

Motherboard: ECS L7S7A2:SIS746 ($52 – newegg.com)
This is a chipset that is extremely inferior to the fastest AMD chipset, nForce. Needless to say its nowhere near the speed of Intel's 875P/Canterwood that has an 800/533MHz Front Side Bus. The ECS has a measly 266/333MHz Front Side Bus. It also has NO Serial ATA capabilities so you're stuck with using IDE drives, and it has NO RAID either. My past with ECS has NOT been a good one, but I didn't expect much from an off brand. Benchmarks don't lie.

Processor: Athlon XP Palomino or T-bred 2000+, 1.67gig OEM ($62 – newegg.com)
No clue why this guy put “or Palomino.” There is no such thing as a Palomino that runs at 1.67GHz either. Sounds fishy, like he's trying to leave room in there to possibly stick you with a slower processor in the end. The T-Bred only has a 266MHz FSB, opposed to the 800MHz FSB of an Intel P4 2.4C. The T-Bred doesn't have hyperthreading either.

Heatsink: Zalman CNPS6000ALCU ($30 – siliconacoustics.com)
The Zalman COMES with a 92mm fan already, so I'm not sure why he mentioned something about an 80mm fan on the website.

RAM: Samsung 512MB PC2700 ($78 – newegg.com)
Run of the mill OEM RAM, nothing special.

Hard-Drive: Maxtor D740X 60GB ($66 – compuplus.com)
::Cringe:: Definately wouldn't go with Maxtor after the past I've had with them. Seagate and Western Digital would be the names to watch for. 60GB is a joke if you plan on recording a lot of stuff.

Graphics Card: ATI Xpert 2000 Pro 32MB ($24 – directron.com)
No TV-OUT, no dual monitor support, and it only has 32MB of RAM. No clue why anyone would recommend a card like this to you. Sure it'll “work” but it's limiting and extremely dated to say the least.

CD Burner: LG GOLDSTAR 8520BB ($48 – pc-assets.com)
Had a hard time finding any reviews on this one, let alone people who carried it. Again, another questionable off brand.

OS: Windows XP Home ($189 – amazon.com)
I definitely wouldn't recommend Home edition, especially if you're trying to use a machine for professional music creation. Though you can always install another OS, he's charging you for this. I have no idea why a “professional” would send a PC out with this on it, let alone recommend it.

HARDWARE COST = $408
TOTAL COST W/ WINDOWS XP HOME INCLUDED = $597

Personally, that price quote is fighting words to me. I would tell that guy where to stick it. The machine is not only EXTREMELY overpriced (even the price with the stupid XP Home included, no clue why he did that), but it is a minimalist machine for normal applications let alone the extremely resource hogging, system straining audio production/recording programs you would need it to run. But, if you feel like buying it then bend over, grab your heels, and take it like a man.

[TomWaitsFoot]

Yeah, I agree. Run for the hills. I did some shopping for quite a few months before buying a PC a few weeks back. What I found was that these "boutique" companies who put together systems usually ream you, price-wise. I once had a guy quote me (on an AMD Athlon XP2200, 256MBram, 40gig drive, one CDr bay...that's it!) $950. And, then he acted like this was the *DEAL OF THE CENTURY*(tm). I told him where to stick it.

I recently spent about $625 on a machine (before taxes) that is an AMD 2600+, 512MBram, WINxp-home, 6 USB2 ports, and lots of extras including a CD-r/DVD-r. You just gotta keep shopping around...and pay close attention to adds that are "rebates". Don't buy anything with a rebate, unless it's a great deal to begin with - chances are, in this economy, you may never see the rebate. The price I quoted about ($625) is without rebate - I didn't need any other incentive besides the fact that it's a great machine, made by a not-so-famous (read: it ain't a DELL or GATEWAY, ack!) maker.

Good luck!

[Pixelite]

Just to be fair here. How much would you guys charge to go out, buy the parts, install, troubleshoot and configure the system and then install and optimize the software for audio ? This is easily a good days job for most people so I think $300 for that service is well worth it for a lot of people. Besides you'll have someone to call when things get fouled up. Just something to think about. As an engineer doing freelance work I'm accustomed to people undervaluing service work so I thought I'd jump in and give my 2 cents.

[wogg]

I think the HDD, memory, case, video, and processor are all bad choices.

The HDD should be a latest generation 8M cache model (WD special edition for example).

Spending a bunch of money on a PC and pairing it with cheap RAM is stupid. This is one of those areas extra money is well worth it. Corsair is my favorite thus far.

The case - I think Super Power is pretty generic, I'd go with an Antec.

The video, come on. A budget radeon or geforce is around $60 for dual head and or DVI outputs, keep shopping.

The processor is way below the good price point. An XP2600+ with a 333 FSB is under $100 on Pricewatch now, that's the magic point.

Now to correct, err comment on, a couple of things from Gazi:

The SIS chipsets are certainly slower than the nForce or intel offerings, but they do a good job and are generally pretty stable. The FSB is not the bottleneck when running most audio apps. The processor runs out of floating point power for DSP before the FSB is saturated.

The XP2000+ Palamino @ 1.67G is the top scaling of that core. I have one. The T-Bred runs much cooler though and is a better choice.

XP home edition would work fine unless you're planning on going up to SMP someday. The kernels are identicle. You can also get a full install OEM edition for $93 from NewEgg.

[This message has been edited by wogg (edited 08-29-2003).]

[TeleCarlos]

Hey Emagine, you know you have opened "the" can of worms???

Still, there's a lot of advice here so keep your ears/eyes open, you'll learn a lot. That's what I did and built myself a DAW.

Good luck man!!!!

I'll leave it to the pros....

[maggotcontrol]

Like I mentioned in the other thread, I don't think it's right posting this kind of message on a public forum. Mention the parts, services and prices but mentioning the name of the vendor and even the contact name isn't very ethical in my humble opinion.

Just my 2 cents.

p.s. The quality of the parts in this system looks like an Emachines to me.

Yoshi
www.studiokobari.com (http://www.studiokobari.com)

[Michael Quayle]

Agreed Yoshi. We had no need to know anything about Scott from ADK or yourself on the other thread when Emagine posted his questions here. If it was my name up there, I'd be more than a little surprised and upset. I think that calls for a 10% 'liberty' surcharge http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Michael Quayle (edited 08-30-2003).]

[the_lost]

While you are all at it... I have a quick question that maybe someone could answer. I'm building a system for a friend who has a budget of $700. I've already purchased a Viewsonic 17"CRT, an ASUS 52x CDRW, an 80gig WD HD (8mg), the Case with a 450watt Enermax PS, Floppy drive, keyboard, & mouse. (He already has an Audiophile 2496, Sonar & Win 2000pro, and a 15" CRT.)

I've got $350 left. I still need 512 of RAM, the Mobo & Proc. I was thinking of getting the Asus A7N8X-X/Nforce mobo with an XP 1800 because there's MOBO/Proc bundles on Pricewatch for $150. (He's only doing Sampling & MIDI production, no recording, so I thought the 1800 might be enough).

My question is, should I go with the 1800? Is that a Palamino? And if so, what's the bus speed? 200mhz? What RAM should I throw in this thing speed wise PC2100? 1 512 stick or 2 256 sticks? Is the A7N8X-X model alright? Another reason I opted for the XP 1800 is that I hoped to scrounge up a dual head video card as well? Wogg mentioned a Radeon or GeForce card for $60 that's dual head... What are the models of those card so I can do some web scouring.

I guess that turned out to be more than one simple question.... http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif sorry guys!

Any insight is much appreciated.
jay

[This message has been edited by the_lost (edited 08-30-2003).]

[Ghazi]

What you need to go with is the Athlon XP 1700+ because it is cheap and can be overclocked and maintain stability set at least to 2GHz. It isn't uncommon to have it running just fine at 2.6-2.8 with the following method I'm going to explain. Make sure you find a retailer that will guarentee you the JIUHB setting. Couple that processor with a Thermalright SLK-800(or 900) and a Tornado 92mm fan. You will need that fan to make sure everything stays nice and cool. It will as long as you get the Tornado on the processor and just have at least one other case fan going. Also, you'll want to spring for a fan controller. When it is running at default speed the Tornado is very loud to most people. You can find many fan controllers for a fairly reasonable sum online. They can get as elaborate as the Nexus fan controller I use that is $30. It has front knob controllers and everything. You can find them for much more inexpensive than that though. It just depends on what kinds of features you want and how much you're willing to spend on it. It is very important that you have the JIHUB either way you cut it. You can search eBay for auctions on this particular setting as well. I have two machines running with that exact stepping. The first I use as a Linux fileserver and it's truely a workhorse. This is all coming from someone who uses an Intel 2.4C OCed to 3.5GHz w/ 800MHz FSB as his main machine. I still use the same Thermalright heatsink and Vantec Tornado fan that I have with the AMD 1700+ machines, with my Intel machine. I don't pay much attention to those who fight to the death over Intel and AMD. Both are have their great aspects and I incorporate both of them into my studio setup and the machines that compliment it. My second AMD machine is a computer that is simply dedicated to running Gigastudio. I just run it into a mixer then into the main Intel machine (which acts as the main controller and sequencer with Cubase SX) and it reads it as an outside audio source. This works FAR BETTER than trying to work on a machine with GigaStudio and the sequencer on the same unit. As far as RAM goes, use the TwinMOS PC3200 RAM. I also use the Abit NF7-S motherboard for my AMD machine. Motherboards are another component who's reviews I've poured over. I'd strictly recommend Abit as far as they go. Epox is close too if you want integrated stuff onboard such as graphics and sound. But to get the best overclocking, go with the NF7-S for an AMD machine. I also use an Abit on my Intel machine, it's the IC7. The brand is very dependable and it's a name you can trust. Benchmarks don't lie. Follow my advice and you will NOT be disappointed with the result. Just my 2 cents, hope it helps.

[Bops2000]

Ghazi - re: the "fan thang"
If I have to worry about all that cooling, I would deem the system volatile.
I aint' that smart but I ain't dat dumb niether. If I am gonna run a session, lets say for 20 hours straight, I don't wanna even think about a fan cooling my processor.
in good spirits
Boppers

[Ghazi]

I don't exactly understand what you're talking about. The processor will have the fan and the heatsink on it. Your system will also be continually cooled by additional case fans. Where does your concern lie? I don't care how long you're running it for. You should see the manner in which system "burn-ins" are regularly conducted on machines identical to the setup I've mentioned.

[Polaris]

Originally posted by maggotcontrol:
Like I mentioned in the other thread, I don't think it's right posting this kind of message on a public forum. Mention the parts, services and prices but mentioning the name of the vendor and even the contact name isn't very ethical in my humble opinion.

Just my 2 cents.

p.s. The quality of the parts in this system looks like an Emachines to me.

Yoshi
www.studiokobari.com (http://www.studiokobari.com)

Why is it unethical? People should know who is charging what for computers, that way they can decide for themselves if it is a good value or not.

The market (and his product) will dictate whether or not $800 is a good price for that machine.

It's not unethical to list Gateway and then list all what you get for $xxx.xx, you know?

[Michael Quayle]

Gateway isn't a real life person with a face. It's a completely unsuitable comparison.

[dawboxpro]

Better Parts, Better Price...

Black Mid Tower 350W Power

Asus A7N8X-D "Box" "Full Blown Options" Better board $120

512 Kingston DR-400 "KVR400X64C3/512 " $89

Radeon 7500 "Box" 64M Dual Head VGA W/TV Out $60

XP-2000 "Retail Box" $68

80G Seagate Serail ATA S-ATA Drive $88

Lite On 52x32x52 $45

Windows XP Home $85
_________________________________________-

Build/ Bench/
Burn In $165

Shipping Handling for $35

____________________________

Total Cost Shipped $800.00
www.dawbox.com (http://www.dawbox.com)

[This message has been edited by dawboxpro (edited 09-02-2003).]

[This message has been edited by dawboxpro (edited 09-02-2003).]

[Kurdish Mayfield]

I have to agree with the above statements to Emagine:this is pretty lame to keep posting private quotes with the builders name on a public forum. Did you ask in advance?

[TomWaitsFoot]

I gotta take exception to one of the above posts. While I'm semi-new to the computer aided recording process (have always made albums using tape and tubes), I did use a computer for some processes on my last recording. What type? Well, even though it became somewhat of a joke during the sessions, it was an emachine, and say what you will - it worked with no problems whatsoever.

It was using Sonar 2.2XL with some pretty fancy smancy plug-ins. Just wanted to put those 2 cents in. I don't want any lurkers/posters to feel like a bloody dolt just because they have an emachine.

Carry on.

T

[Polaris]

Originally posted by Michael Quayle:
Gateway isn't a real life person with a face. It's a completely unsuitable comparison.

Not really. A company's a company, any way you slice it.

Just because one happens to participate more than others in an online forum doesn't exclude them from having their prices talked about in reference to value.

[Polaris]

Gee, since everyone's spamming their wares, I can build one too http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Case-- Antec Sonata with 380PS
HD-- Seagate 120gig 7200rpm Serial ATA
CDRW-- Lite-On 52x24x52
CPU-- AMD Athlon 2200+
RAM-- Crucial DDR, 512MB, DDR400
Mobo-- Asus A7V8X
AGP-- Sapphire ATI 7500 Pro 64MB DDR
OS-- Windows XP Home

$800, shipped.

p.s. While I can build computers, this post is meant in sarcasm due to everyone blatantly spamming their heart out in this thread. Come on guys, enough already.

[This message has been edited by Polaris (edited 09-03-2003).]

[Polaris]

Originally posted by TomWaitsFoot:
I gotta take exception to one of the above posts. While I'm semi-new to the computer aided recording process (have always made albums using tape and tubes), I did use a computer for some processes on my last recording. What type? Well, even though it became somewhat of a joke during the sessions, it was an emachine, and say what you will - it worked with no problems whatsoever.

It was using Sonar 2.2XL with some pretty fancy smancy plug-ins. Just wanted to put those 2 cents in. I don't want any lurkers/posters to feel like a bloody dolt just because they have an emachine.

Carry on.

T

I do agree with you there. eMachines, while frowned upon everywhere I go, can get the job done a lot of the time. Make no mistake, they do use the lowest common denominator parts. But if those parts work for you and are stable, who cares?

[dawboxpro]

I would not go with that case though Polaris. There is nothing silent about it at all. They claim it runs at 20bd sure with just the power supply. The PSU on that thing is lame and is not even close to the silent PSU's you can get for less.

They tout it on there site as this great thing but it is no better than a nice solid case with the proper silent parts.


Great choice on the board and the hard drive though thats what I would have used.

Peace!

Justin Lynch (Digital Studio Consultant)

[Polaris]

Originally posted by dawboxpro:
I would not go with that case though Polaris. There is nothing silent about it at all. They claim it runs at 20bd sure with just the power supply. The PSU on that thing is lame and is not even close to the silent PSU's you can get for less.

They tout it on there site as this great thing but it is no better than a nice solid case with the proper silent parts.


Great choice on the board and the hard drive though thats what I would have used.

Peace!

Justin Lynch (Digital Studio Consultant)



Not the quietest, but cheaper than a Zalman plus a case.

[dawboxpro]

That case is like $118.00

Another case for $50 and silent power for $70

Isn't that the same price within 2 dollars?

Plus now you have a spare power supply in case one of those goes bad you have a backup for returning the other if it ever craps on you.

Craps, sorry I say that word too much.

If your ok with that, I am ok with that.

As long as your bro is cool with that. There should be no problems and he should be very happy.

Peace.
www.dawbox.com (http://www.dawbox.com)

[dawboxpro]

just one more thing and this is directly to Imagine who we should be adressing anyways since it is his post not ours to piss all over with our lame off topic retoric.

Only Vocals?

As a vocalist myself you do not need the balls of the firestation for that.

You need one or two inputs at best. A dedicated pre that kicks but with a spidif output.

What about getting a dedicated PreAmp with SPDIF out and get decent motherboard that supports SPIF.

DBX makes a channel strip with onboard effects and a Tube Strip. Focusrite makes a Pro Channel with SPDIF.

When you doing vocals it is all about the Mic and the Pre not the soundcard.

The Presonus has good pre's but for $649 do you need all the I/O or the CPU power?

ATX Case
AMD Motherboard with SPDIF
XP-1800+
512 DDR-400
32M VGA
40 or 60 or 80G 7200rpm Drive
52X CDRW
Windows XP
_______________

$500-$700

Outboard Pre with SPIF that has killer pre.

$299-$599

If budget permits go ahead and get the Firestation. The Q10 is around the same price and has great Pre-Amps a whole 8 of them and Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 for free!

Even the Omni Studio has decent Pre Amps for the price tag of $379 or whatever.

Now your doing your thing for under or around $1000 or over with the same qauility and results.

Getting a chance to try out the Firestation over the weekend from Presonus.

I will give you my verdict sometime next week. Mixed results from what I have heard but they may have oroned out the original issues when the sound card came out.


Justin www.dawbox.com (http://www.dawbox.com)

[Emagine]

Hey guys,

I feel so special. A simple MC like me raising hell over the internet! hehe.. Names are names and prices are prices. What the big f-cking deal? You all act like a bunch of pussies. You ever seen a store say "We'll match any competitors price!"? All I'm trying to do is get the most for my money. Im not rich (yet). And Yoshi or ADK never EVER told me to keep our "secret business" secret. So, get 2 birds from my hands.. In response to a real response, I already have the Presonus Firestation. When its working, I love it (along with my Baby Blue Bottle Mic). So can anyone build me a ****ING (whoops) computer that is stable and will record my songs?!

EMaGine
(www.mp3.com/emagine305)

[Polaris]

Originally posted by dawboxpro:
That case is like $118.00

Another case for $50 and silent power for $70

Isn't that the same price within 2 dollars?

Plus now you have a spare power supply in case one of those goes bad you have a backup for returning the other if it ever craps on you.

Craps, sorry I say that word too much.

If your ok with that, I am ok with that.

As long as your bro is cool with that. There should be no problems and he should be very happy.

Peace.
www.dawbox.com (http://www.dawbox.com)

That case isn't $118, I don't know where you're shopping. But yeah, I guess you could get a cheesy case for $50 and put a quiet power supply in it.

[Michael Quayle]

Emagine - don't feel special, you're just rude. And as for referring to the guys trying to help you as pussies, WTFG buddy. Go buy a Gateway and see you later.

[Polaris]

Originally posted by Emagine:
Hey guys,

I feel so special. A simple MC like me raising hell over the internet! hehe.. Names are names and prices are prices. What the big f-cking deal? You all act like a bunch of pussies. You ever seen a store say "We'll match any competitors price!"? All I'm trying to do is get the most for my money. Im not rich (yet). And Yoshi or ADK never EVER told me to keep our "secret business" secret. So, get 2 birds from my hands.. In response to a real response, I already have the Presonus Firestation. When its working, I love it (along with my Baby Blue Bottle Mic). So can anyone build me a ****ING (whoops) computer that is stable and will record my songs?!

EMaGine
(www.mp3.com/emagine305)

Well, **** off to you too then. If I were Yoshi, DawBox, or ADK, I wouldn't want an ignorant cheap moron like you buying a system from me anyway.

Have a nice day, and good luck ever getting advice here again.

[Emagine]

Ingorant? Cheap? and a Moron? Thanks guys http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif I don't understand how I'm ignorant, cheap, or a moron? Whatever.. I'm glad you people enjoy dissing me on computer, because you would never do any of it in real life... :P lewserz

[Polaris]

Originally posted by Emagine:
Ingorant? Cheap? and a Moron? Thanks guys http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif I don't understand how I'm ignorant, cheap, or a moron? Whatever.. I'm glad you people enjoy dissing me on computer, because you would never do any of it in real life... :P lewserz

You "dissed" us first buddy, by calling us "pussies". Have fun, I hope you find what you're looking for.

[dawboxpro]

Ok guys thats enough (LOL) all you can do it try to help and thats the best you can do right?

In my opinion there is major value in experience, service and support.
www.dawbox.com (http://www.dawbox.com)