Mix Criticisms

[narcoman]

I was just pondering the use of mix criticisms. I say this because of some work i've just done were a lot of things done in the mix are a little wayward. The vocals a deliberatly buried in some points and in others the drums are too loud. You know, because thats what we wanted to do. I guess i would say look at Jon Spencer Blues Explosion for reference. Now, to criticise these mixes one could say that "yeah, perhaps you could turn the guitars down in the chorus", but that would be against the point. I guess what i'm saying is that these days anything goes, and things which are wrong to some people (especially all us mix types) might be spot on for what the artist wants. Ragged mixing can be as much of a tool as ragged playing in punk bands etc. I guess most criticisms are valid when someone gets a mix wrong because of less knowledge, but what if the supposed wrong mix was arrived at by someone with a lot of experience and deliberately. The strokes would be another example of what most people would maybe not dare to do in a studio for fear of it being "dull dodgy mix". However i think it sounds great precisely becasue of that.

Any comments?

cheers

[Robert D]

Good point, though I think the style of the track often dictates the mix style. So, if someone critiques a mix of a soft ballad, and notes that the raw edge on the such and such doesn't work, then that's probably a valid observation. the inverse might go for an overly produced sound on a street kinda track.
You could make the argument that there are no mistakes in mixing, that every mix is the engineer's artistic interpretation and contribution to the song. But, in as much as that most of us want commercial success, we have to apply a set of rules, as we perceive them, from the examples that the industry provide us with. It sucks, but there it is.
RD

[narcoman]

Its kind of odd really, because this brings forth the whole idea of a valid criticism and a plain daft one !! If something sounds wrong to someone becasue the mix engineer didnt know what he/she was doing then the mix is criticised. However, if the engineer was top flight, then the artistic ideas are what is wrong. The odd thing is you may even be criticising very similar mixes for entirely different reasons. Good points though

cheers

[juppu]

Nice thread!

I agree with you guys, there is no wrong or right, and all the comments one can give are only subjective.
As my favourite example, listen to Counting Crows' August and everything after: The snare is louder than the vocals (!) and there is other really weird things about the mixes. But it's still brilliant, cause it's appropriate and works the way it's meant to...

Then again, around here there's a lot of people who work only on their own music, which is an area where it's extremely easy to go waaaaaay too far in (usually irrelevant) detail and forget how the whole mix sounds.

We also have people who are very new to the whole process of recording and mixing (which is a beauty, since they're less cynical... http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif ), who can benefit hugely from the smallest comment one can spare especially in technical problems with the mix (chattering gates, over/undercompression, predelay times, whatever).

Thus, we have things where another, more (never completely, though) objective pair of ears can be very helpful.

The problem is that someone might come up with something really cool and original for the tune in question and then some moran like myself says "that sounds funny" and they go "it wasn't a good idea after all" and it actually was, though it was technically odd in some way.

(Short story about that: I sent some songs to my former boss for critique and he sent me an e-mail saying "This was bad, I'd change it.", I sent a reply "No I won't, it's good." (I genuinely thought and still think it was - I've forgotten what it was, but I can check it), he replies "OK, you learned what I tried to teach you, do things in your own way". http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif That is a good point...)

I could happily write a few dozen pages about it, but I'll spare you from it... for now... http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

Juppu

P.S. Narco, I'm stuck in the UK for June at least, so I might find the time to come around after all. Dunno about the money... http://www.audioforums.com/forums/frown.gif

[Robert D]

Juppu - Thanks for sparing us from a few dozen pages *LOL*. Good distinction between technical observations and style opinions.
RD