How can I get Led Zep sounding strings with a Yamaha S80?

[bcwdwks]

I love the sound of those Led Zep strings. Another real good example would be on
the song She's A Jar by Wilco on Summerteeth. Man, I love the sound! I have a Yamaha S80 but I'm no key board guru. I'm a guitar player / singer / song writer.
So, I was hoping that maybe someone out there could get that sound and tell me what settings you used. It would be appreciated very much!

Thanks,
BC http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[Nashville Ed]

I am by no means an authority in this area.
I'm not sure which Led Zep strings you refer to BUT, on songs like "The Rain Song" the strings were a mellotron. A "synth" of sorts that played back tape loops.

I'm not familiar with the S80 (other than I know what it is) but I would look for a mellotron setting for starters.

I know there's lots of "disclaimers" in this post but maybe it'll set you on the right path or encourage someone with more info to chime in.

Ed

[bcwdwks]

Hey Ed!
Yeah, the string sound on The Rain Song is what I'm looking for or close to it at least. An even better / closer example of the sound I want is in She's a Jar By Wilco. There's a string / organ sound at the beginning of the song but the sound I'm looking for comes in around 1:33 into the song. Is that a Mellotron too?
Thanks for any help!

BC http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by bcwdwks (edited 07-15-2002).]

[Nashville Ed]

Originally posted by bcwdwks:
She's a Jar By Wilco. There's a string / organ sound at the beginning of the song but the sound I'm looking for comes in around 1:33 into the song. Is that a Mellotron too?
(edited 07-15-2002).]

Unfortunatly, I'm not familiar with that song. I don't know.

Is it country? http://www.audioforums.com/forums/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by Nashville Ed (edited 07-15-2002).]

[bcwdwks]

Hey Ed!
I'd call it alternative country. Kinda like the Jayhawks, the Jayhawks having a bit more
of a country edge to them. If you're into country you might want to check out Wilco.

Cheers,
BC http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[bcwdwks]

One more thing. If you do check out Wilco the Summerteeth cd would be a good place to start. http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[9MileSkid]

Is this the thing you can hear in the CDNow sample on that Wilco song? Sounds like some sort of organ to me, but then I'm no expert. I do have an S80, however. Maybe I'll play around with it tonight and see if I can come close to the mellotron on "Rain Song" (I don't think the stock S80 sounds include a mellotron)...

By the way, do you know how to set up an S80 for multichannel MIDI playback? I can get it to play back one channel no problem, but I haven't gotten the hang of multichannel yet. My soundcard is an Audiophile, which has no MIDI synth. That means that all my MIDI stuff (mostly composition rather than recording, so it's not a huge deal) is currently playing back on the MS softsynth, which is, to put it nicely, sonically challenged, especially when it comes to strings and winds.

-m

[bcwdwks]

Originally posted by 9MileSkid:
Is this the thing you can hear in the CDNow sample on that Wilco song? Sounds like some sort of organ to me, but then I'm no expert. I do have an S80, however. Maybe I'll play around with it tonight and see if I can come close to the mellotron on "Rain Song" (I don't think the stock S80 sounds include a mellotron)...

By the way, do you know how to set up an S80 for multichannel MIDI playback? I can get it to play back one channel no problem, but I haven't gotten the hang of multichannel yet. My soundcard is an Audiophile, which has no MIDI synth. That means that all my MIDI stuff (mostly composition rather than recording, so it's not a huge deal) is currently playing back on the MS softsynth, which is, to put it nicely, sonically challenged, especially when it comes to strings and winds.

-m
Hey M,
I'm the last guy to ask when it comes to midi. Sorry. BUT! I did find a patch in the S80 called Tron. I've ran across it before but didn't pay mutch attention to it at the time. I thought it refered to the movie. I know, what a maroon. http://www.audioforums.com/forums/redface.gif) Anyway, turn off quick access > hit INT > strings > patch 12. Do you think that's it? It sounds pretty close. It's a good starting place anyway. Let me know if you do any tweeks that make it sound closer to The Rain Song.

Cheers,
BC http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[Nashville Ed]

[is currently playing back on the MS softsynth]

that tells me that the MIDI out is directed to the internal sounds, most likely on your sound card. I can't recall if the setting is changed at the soundcard or MIDI under multimedia settings in the control panel, but you simply need to change the MIDI destination to external.

Oh, thanks for the info on "Wilco" I'll check into it.

[This message has been edited by Nashville Ed (edited 07-16-2002).]

[carparker]

BC,

If you got a soft sampler in your pc, and can connect a midi keyboard to it and you don't mind a bit of fidding about you can download some free mellotron samples here:
http://www.fortunecity.com/cobrand/exitpop/de-exitpop2.html

Go to the jphovercraft link, and there's downloads of mellotron strings (rain song) flutes (stairway) and choirs.. I just checked out one 'string' and it's very good.

Alternatly, you can get a few ready setup soundfonts of mellotrons here:
http://www.hammersound.net/cgi-bin/soundlink.pl?action=view_category&category=Ensemble&ListStart=0&ListLength=15

the 'tron75 or whatever it was called is pretty good, from what i remember.

In my experience it's worth messing about with the raw samples yourself if you get them, because looped right you wouldn't know it wasn't a real 'tron..

a lot 'if you have this, if you have that' i know, but i hope it's of some help...

cp.

[9MileSkid]

Originally posted by Nashville Ed:
you simply need to change the MIDI destination to external.

Thanks, Ed, but that's not the issue. I've figured out how to direct MIDI output to the S80, and it plays just fine. The problem is that it only plays back the first channel (i.e., it ignores the other channels). You can see how this limits my artistic possibilities http://www.audioforums.com/forums/wink.gif.

I'm pretty sure this is something I need to set up with the S80, so one of these days I'm going to try to find some S80 forum and ask there.

-m

[9MileSkid]

Originally posted by bcwdwks:
BUT! I did find a patch in the S80 called Tron. I've ran across it before but didn't pay mutch attention to it at the time. I thought it refered to the movie. I know, what a maroon. http://www.audioforums.com/forums/redface.gif) Anyway, turn off quick access > hit INT > strings > patch 12. Do you think that's it? It sounds pretty close. It's a good starting place anyway. Let me know if you do any tweeks that make it sound closer to The Rain Song.

Cheers,
BC http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

Wow, you're right. The S80's full of surprises. Almost makes me wish I spent less time with my guitars and more with it...

Anyway, you're right. That's pretty close. I think it's got a little too much high end, though. You can use knob 2 to control a frequency filter, and if you move it a touch counterclockwise, I think it sounds even closer to the "Rain Song" thing.

-m

PS. Have you noticed that this patch won't sustain indefinitely? It cuts off after five or six seconds or so...

PPS. "The Crunge" is a terrible, terrible song.

[carparker]

Originally posted by 9MileSkid:

PS. Have you noticed that this patch won't sustain indefinitely? It cuts off after five or six seconds or so...

PPS. "The Crunge" is a terrible, terrible song.

(PS)I believe real mellotrons have lengths of tapes rather than loops that ping back on a spring mechanism after 8 seconds-ish, I guess they are going for the authentic stop dead sound in the S80.

(PPS) and 'song' is stretching it a bit lol

[martin armsby]

PS. Have you noticed that this patch won't sustain indefinitely? It cuts off after five or six seconds or so...Hi, the mellotron had a tape player for each key. The tape hung down inside the keyboard and was apprx. 8 seconds long - so when the tape was played to its end you had to release the key to let it rewind. If I remember rightly each tape (note) had three tracks recorded to it, usually choir, strings and flutes although there were other sets of tapes available at a price! Very atmospheric and used by many bands in the 70`s especially early Genisis http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[Nashville Ed]

[it only plays back the first channel (i.e., it ignores the other channels).]

Sorry about that, I misunderstood the problem. yep, That sounds like a setting in the Yamaha.

You see, I knew there were folks here who knew more about Mellotrons than I.

[This message has been edited by Nashville Ed (edited 07-18-2002).]

[TCONNELLY]

For multi channel playback try this. Press Utility button. Use Page knob to scroll down to MIDI. Use [A] knob to set Recv to omni. Now select a performance. Press Edit. Use the Page knob to get to MIX. Use the A B C 1 2 knobs to select the sound you want. Use the Page knob to scroll down to the LYR Mode page. Use the 2 knob to select the MIDI rcv channel you want. Repeat for the remaining parts. Note: AD P1 P2 parts are for analog in and optional plugin cards. Ithink that should do it.
Let me know if this works.

Tim

[9MileSkid]

Originally posted by TCONNELLY:

Let me know if this works.

Tim

Beautiful, Tim. There are some minor issues I need to tweak out, but this is definitely a start. Thanks a lot.

And sorry about the late reply; my internet access was (and is) in peril. I guess that'll give me more time to concentrate on playing and recording, though.

Thanks again.

-m