Mic Input Level Still to Loud - how to pad?

[MisterMark]

i have a direct pro 24/96. it has a software based mixer that allows for some adjustment of the trim input level. i am doing some drum recording with close mic'ing. one of my microphones is getting too hot of a signal. it has no pad built in and it is still too hot with the trim level all the way down. i know i could back up the mic a bit, but then i start losing the close mic sound.

is there any device that i can plug into that will pad the sound without losing any relative frequency response? (yes the mic uses a balanced xlr connection)

if there is no retail device available, what would it take to build something like that?

thank you,

mark

[Vernon Kuehn]

Check with Radio Shack, or your favorite store such as Mars, Guitar Center, or local music store.

A pad is quite simple to make, consisting of some resistors that will make no noticeable change in you sound. I haven't purchased or priced one lately but $15 or $20 should get it. (When I need one I grab parts from my junk collection and fabricate it. If you were comfortable doing that, you probably would not have asked the question. <grin> )

If your mic is dynamic, placement is not a big issue. If you are using a condensor mic... one with phantom power... I would not put the pad between the mic and the phatom power source. Put it downstream, between the phantom power and your Direct-pro. If your Direct-pro provides the phantom power, we will have to go back to the drawing board.

[Vernon Kuehn]

Typical values for pads at retail will probably be 10, 15 or 20 db. Hard to tell from a distance what the ideal value would be for your system. If you don't mind spending a few extra bucks, buy two lower value pads (10 db?) and try one alone, try two in series.

I don't know if it is a valid concept, but I learned from some of the "old timers" that two or three pads of lower value in series were better than one large loss pad. Your mileage may vary.

[MisterMark]

well it is a condenser mic and the direct pro does supply the phantom power. so what will be the result from putting the pad between the mic and the direct pro? is it just not possible or is it just a poor gain structure/routing procedure?

thank you,

mark

[Matthew Skinner]

Going from memory a pad is just two resistors or a voltage devider. They are only on the pins2 and 3... as those two pins both carry the same voltage + and the sheild carries -gnd then the pad should not effect phantom power at all.

All/most good condensors will have a pad built in as they are quite commonly needed.

[Sip]

My buddy has three Apex 190's that he uses for tom mics and he has the same problem. Is there a site that you guys can refer us to about these homeade pads.

[DS_Sultan]

When you say you adjust the trim level I hope your talking about the top control in the DP control panel and not the main channel slider. The input trim has a TON of sensativity and to cut down the signal you want the trim up toward the top. The trim has three levels of granularity and adjustments within these levels, (0, +20, +40 I believe) and closer to 0 is a cooler signal. I have never seen a case where adjusting the trim did not result in a signal level change where the signal was still way to hot. Check this setting and see what you got it set to.

[Sip]

I'm running condensors (on toms) directly into a Behringer mixer. The gain control is turned all the way down, and my clip lights are still going off.

[Matthew Skinner]

Sorry if you cant design your own then you dont have the know how to make the pads. Incorrectly wirring up a pad could blow up your condensor. I can only recommend you go out and purcahse one for about $10.... Sorry but I've seen a lot of so called DIYers ruin good gear by modding things. Then they expect people like myself to replace the gear under warrenty ! 10 bucks is not a lot and well worth having a few of them, I have some real ones in my gig bag that goes everywhere with me with headphones, gaffer and berroca (vitamin B http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

Every electronic course will teach you voltage deviders with two resistors, if your interested do a 3 day course in electronics.

[Sip]

I have found some pads that just look like an XLR to XLR adapter, but they are $35 and $45 Canadian. The two I found were from Cable Factory and Whirlwind. What brand are your $10 ones?

[EssDee]

If any of you guys are using mixers before your converters, a simple and cheap solution to padding the input signal is this:

Simply get an XLR to TRS adapter cable (build your own) and plug it into your LINE INPUT on your mixer - presto!! an instant 20 or 30 db pad, depending on your mixer. I have a dozen or so of these cables on hand in case I run into a situation when the mixer doesn't have a pad feature. Of course, I don't know how you'd deal with it if you have condenser mics or have to go straight to the converters but it works like a charm when you're in a tight or are on a budget. I hope this helps someone!!

[This message has been edited by EssDee (edited 07-25-2002).]

[Willy]

http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/

Cripes, can't anyone just help the poor bugger out...

Willy.

[Sip]

Thanks for the link, I'll do some reading tonight.

[DS_Sultan]

Gosh Willy, I thought I was trying to help him??? http://www.audioforums.com/forums/frown.gif I use basically the same setup and don't have that issue, so adjusting the control panel was a logical thing to look at.

[MisterMark]

well the info given here seems to give me a few possibilities. thank you guys very much.
just to clarify, i am using one of those baby bottle mic's from blue. although it is a very expensive microphone, it does not have a pad built in. and i can assure you that the trim on the software based control module of the direct pro24/96 doesn't allow the signal to get as low as i need with this mic and the desired application. i hope that helps anyone going through the same thing with the same gear. bottom line - time to buy/build a pad.

i am still unclear why i shouldn't place a pad between the mic and the phantom power source (which in this case is the breakout box of the direct pro 24/96). can someone clarify?

thank you,

mark

[Vernon Kuehn]

The phantom power system "super-imposes" DC voltage on the same wires carrying the audio signal. Build your pad wrong (or buy an incorrectly designed factory built pad) and the DC voltage will "short circuit" through the resistors in the pad which has the possibility of creating the following problems: 1. Reduce the available voltage to the mic so that it doesn't work or works poorly. 2. excess current could burn up a resistor in the pad. 3. Excess current could burn up your phantom voltage source power supply. Chances are that none of these will happen..... but, .....