MASTERING Heeeeeeelp!!!!

[predator]

What happens if I apply all the samples of my track through the proccess of mastering and then mastering (again) my track as a final mixdown??Does this make any sense for improvement of my sound or an undesired distortion will occur??

[jecahn]

Assuming that you're talking about "home mastering" as opposed to "real mastering" I guess that you're wanting to process all of your tracks / samples through BBE or TRacks or a Waves suite and then do it again when the track is mixed down to a stereo master?

There's no reason that you can't do this and if you do it right, it shouldn't introduce unwanted distortion into you mix. However, just because something sounds good out of context doesn't mean that it will sound equally well in your final project.

You'll be forgiven for imagining that getting each individual part to sound good will result in the whole mix sounding good. Sadly, this just isn't the case. You have to mix within the context of your project. A bass track that sounds fantastic by itself will, 9 times of 10, not sound so hot if just dropped into a mix.

You can process tracks anyway you like, though. Sounds right, is right.

[predator]

Of course I'm talking about home mastering.If I only had access to a mastering studio...Mid-summer night's dream,I guess!!I think I got your point jecahn.Thanx a lot man.One more question:what's -at your opinion- the best home mastering software-tool??

[Plec81]

Basically.. all home mastering software (or so they say it is) doesn't do you any good. Compressors sound aweful, EQs like wise. The only thing you should even consider when doing something at home would actually be to use a limiter ever so slightly. Something like the Waves L1 or L2 in order to gain a few db of extra level. I'm not talking about smashing your audio but just to take 0.5 - 1.5db off of the highest peaks and NO MORE!

You will benefit from this! The next step would be to use a mastering house.

[predator]

Well Plec81,I would say that i disagree a little bit with you about home mastering.If someone knows a few things and spend a couple of days!searching in the net,will find great mastering products.Have you ever try izotope stuff?I have processed some tracks of mine throught that tool and I realised that sound becomes more deeper,more dimentional and non-amature (not professional,of course).Anyway,I think I'll go away for a while to clear my mind of that stuff!!!c.u.

[juppu]

...Plus I have to add that Ted Jensen uses the C4 extensively... http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif There are some good plugins, but how to use them is another thing.

You should try to mix SO good that you only need to boost the volume up and use maybe 2 bands of EQ, cause if you start messin' around with mastering without really knowing what you're doing, you might get lost.

I always get somebody else to do the mastering for me. It's really hard to be objective...

Juppu

[jecahn]

Originally posted by predator:
...One more question:what's -at your opinion- the best home mastering software-tool??

For as many hits as it takes, I think that TRacks is nice. I know all the reasons that everyone hates TRacks and there are Waves plugins, etc., that do similar stuff. But at the end of the day, it's about "making your mix sound better." I'm able to use TRacks to do that. So, right, wrong or otherwise, there may be other tools that work better for other guys. For me, TRacks is nice to warm up a track from time to time. Also, try some distortion plugins. I've had great success processing a stereo mixdown through BBE and Magneto. I've also used the Vintage Warmer to good effect. Finally, although it is pretty over the top at most times, I once got great "analog saturation type" results from running a drum track through PredatOHM.

Experiment, you'll find something that you like.

[predator]

Thanx jecahn,and all of you for your help.C.U.-maybe- in some of the Greek islands!!!!!

[Matthew Skinner]

These questions always make me laugh. If you can hear what your doing when your mastering then WHY THE HECK dont you do it in the mix before mixdown where you have loads more control ?!?!?

If its perfect to your ears at mixdown then why go and destroy it by making bad choices by compressing it with X ratio and applying X eq settings.

Mastering should be left to people without monitors that are worth at least US$6000 with an amp thats worth almost as much, all situated in a room thats had heaps of treatment by a professional.

[ethereal1]

Originally posted by Matthew Skinner:
Mastering should be left to people without monitors that are worth at least US$6000 with an amp thats worth almost as much, all situated in a room thats had heaps of treatment by a professional.

Perhaps, but if you don't experiment, you're never going to learn. For me, at least, that's half the reason of doing all this...

Eric

[jecahn]

Beware any post that claims, "anyone who knows anything only does it this way: XXX"

[Robert D]

Ok, look, anyone who knows anything does it this way....

But seriously, I don't think most of us can get very serious about mastering, as we do lack the truely mastering quality tools to do the job right. This requires tens of thousands of dollars in equipment investment, and a master knowledge of audio engineering. It simply can't be bought with a $200 mastering plugin, or even a $2000 finalizer hardware box.
That's not to say we shouldn't work on learning about it, but I would never kid myself to think that I have the tools or experience to do mastering, in the true sense of the word.
Cheers, RD

[Plec81]

As a mastering engineer, to do my job, I haft to have a full understanding of the mixing process and the recording process as well as the technical part of it. My job is to improve peoples recordings. That is a lot easier to do when you can relate to their problem. As a mastering engineer you learn a lot from other peoples mistakes.

People who do recording and mixing will learn a lot when studying mastering cause it's such a wide topic. The problem with learning about mastering is that in many cases you get misinformed by articles that say "This is how you master" and the marketing tricks of such things as the finalizer. So go ahead and learn, but the most important things is to trust your ears and take most articles on the subject with a pinch of salt. However, when it comes down to it, you should hire a professional.

[predator]

Mr Matthew Skinner,I have only two answers for you.The first one is,that sounds behave different when processed alone and VERY much different when mixed with other sounds.By making a sole sample sounds great,doesn't mean that it wil be great in my final mix too.What the f*ck..is it voodoo or black magic??I guess it's called FREQUENCIES.
The second answer is,that music should be made only by experts (as mastering too-at your opinion),but heyyy..me and thousand of amateurs do great job in music production without the use of super-duper synths or tools.
Closing,you should know that the more you go deep into a specific issue,the most you realize that you know very FEW things.

[Robert D]

Plec - Maybe you could share with us your opinion on how to choose a mastering engineer/facility?
Thx, RD

[Plec81]

Well Robert,

My opinion is that the most important tools to a mastering engineer are his ears and his monitors. If I where to choose between a facility that had the greatest analog and digital processing gear, but was monitoring through a pair of Genelecs and a facility who uses only plug-ins but have a killer monitoring system, I would go for the latter.

But the real key to it all is the person behind the board. Now, it's very hard to know what facility you're going to choose. Since people in general doesn't really know what mastering is about, it's very hard for them to judge the quality of a mastering job. Mastering is not about making anything sound different. If you listen to a "demo dosc" from a facility, you will undoubtly find the projects they did that made the most difference, cause that is what people expect from a mastering job. For me, a really bad sounding recording doesn't say anything about the quality of the mastering job. If something came in on 24 bits for example that sounds awful... a great mastering job could be to choose the right dithering to get it down to 16 bits in the best way possible instead of applying a lot of processing which might turn it into mush due to the bad recording/mixing itself.

If something like this was displayed on a demo disc from a facility, people would undoubtly think it sucks. They can't hear a difference between the two versions so it's not a good mastering job, right?

I think the single most important thing when choosing a mastering facility is to ATTEND YOUR SESSION!!! The interaction with the mastering engineer is so important. When you have done a couple of jobs together, you can pretty much leave everything up to the engineer 'cause he/she will by then be very in tune to what are looking for.

So I guess that you should look for a mastering engineer that you can work with in a relaxed atmosphere. The gear comes in second and is just a bonus http://www.audioforums.com/forums/wink.gif

[Matthew Skinner]

Originally posted by predator:
Mr Matthew Skinner,I have only two answers for you.The first one is,that sounds behave different when processed alone and VERY much different when mixed with other sounds.


I agree with that 100%, thats why I'll never use a program like cool edit for multitrack work because you cant eq whilst listening to the whole mix. I'll repeat what I wrote, try to read it with an open mind.... If you can hear whats wrong, you should fix it in the mix way before mixdown not leave it to the mastering stage as you have much better control. If you leave it to the mastering stage you'll have to make trade offs with everything you do. In fact if you need too much eq then you should try a different mic/mic position.

Mastering should not be done.

on same speakers
by same person / on the same day
in the same room

As the person who did the mixdown. If you dont do these things I've written above you CANNOT possibly achieve the best recording your capable of achieving. You've asked for help on mastering and I've told you some general plain cold facts on it. You have a choice to listen or not to listen. I'm not here to argue but to challege the way people think, feel free to challage the way I think about audio as thats how I learn and grow as a engineer.

AS for only pros recording, I never wrote that, only that mastering should be left to someone who has better equipment and ears than a beginner. In other words a pro for mastering. In simple terms mastering is getting someone to "fix the mistakes you've made".
www.prorec.com (http://www.prorec.com) has an excellent article on mastering.