The Truth
10-29-2001, 06:55 PM
here's a thread that digi censored off their own forum :
wartortle
Member
Member # 13234
posted October 29, 2001 01:47 PM
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Hello Digidesign Developers,
By now I am sure you are aware that Windows XP has been released and is the standard operating system shipping on PCs. That is, if I went to the local CompUSA and purchased a PC, it would come with Windows XP preinstalled, not Windows 98 or ME. I don't know if you can even buy Windows 98 or ME in the stores anymore. Why would you want to? My point here is that my brand spanking new computer would not be 'Pro Tools Ready', because it's too up-to-date. I realize that you are keeping the release date of your XP upgrade secret to foil the plans of other companies and trick them into releasing their updates first, but still, it would be nice to give we, the people silly enough to purchase your hardware some vague estimate of when the amazing update will be released. True, you guys are probably spending all of your time adding features to the decrepit TDM platform and working on RocketNetwork support that we poor LE lot can't use, but you've got to have at least a low-paid developer or two working on the XP update. Right?
Oh and what about DirectConnect, ASIO drivers, and QuickTime support. Oh I can't stop laughing... By the way, how about upping the 24 track limit? Maybe just by one? 25 tracks? Please? 24 and a half?
Mr Tortle.
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wartortle
Member
Member # 13234
posted October 29, 2001 01:52 PM
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Oh, and one point I forgot to mention in my previous post. Microsoft has been pretty forthcoming in their announcements about Windows XP's release. It wasn't a closely guarded secret, so one would figure that perhaps given the knowledge that Windows XP would be coming out in late 2001, Digidesign would hand some developers the betas and tell them to get crackin' on the port. That way, they'd be able to support it upon release. However, it seems that is not the case. Perhaps in the current financial market Digidesign is too poor to afford television sets, Internet access, or newspapers. If this is truly the case, I am willing to purchase a nice overpriced TDM system to help fund Digidesign so that they can afford to keep current.
Let me know.
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Digi Engineering
Administrator
Member # 618
posted October 29, 2001 04:47 PM
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Are you really looking for information, or did you just come here to insult us?
Eric Day
Digidesign
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Digi9000000
Member
Member # 13994
posted October 29, 2001 04:54 PM
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isn't that obvious?
who has all this time, that they can flame all day?
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DigiKing
Member
Member # 22775
posted October 29, 2001 05:37 PM
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To DigiDesign Engineers
I Respect Protools and Digidesign for all they have allowed me to do. My questions are this.
Will Digidesign even support the XP platform? To my Knowledge they did'nt support windows 2000. Commenting on the last user post about upgrading the track count. Surely 24 tracks is not enough these days given the complexity of some home users recording sessions. Could'nt you up the count to at least 32(if not More) and keep the 24 on the digi tool box level? Even though there are other programs that offer higher track counts, I feel that Protools is a Superior program and I choose to work in that domain.
What about post production support. If I could I would upgrade to the Mother of them all but I can't. Nuendo(inferior Program) offers that support and I know that's your competition so maybe you are considering it.
Higher Midi channels would be a dream. At Least 48 Channel support.
Lastly, Mac and Pc Equality. I'm a pc user and I'm Frustrated that mac has many more features that I would use but are not supported on the Pc Platform, if the digioo1 is cross-platform, then should'nt all of the goodies, plug-ins etc.. be made to cross also?.
Thank You
Dedicated Protools User
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kdotson
Member
Member # 19359
posted October 29, 2001 05:54 PM
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This is a shout out to all the digi Design Engineers. Pro Tools LE is great. Yes it has it's flaws, but to me that's a limation to the platform that it runs on. It disturbs me when Digi001 users get flamed, because there is no support for XP yet. Well maybe they don't consider all the R&D cost that go into porting "things" over. Also if anyone would understand the Digi001 is a home recording studio. Not a Professional. It can be used as a Porfessional, but it was not meant to be. For the amount of money the 001 cost to me right there is a cost savings. You can do everything you can in a real professional recording studio. Anyone that has worked with a SSL and 2in tape would really appreciate the DIGI001. I think the real problem is this. Since the DIGI001 is so easy and simple to setup people are spoiled. Most of the users don't even have the recording concept down. So they think the unit should do things it shouldn't. And one more thing. The most succesful people are people that can adapt. Quit complaing and adapt. Or just go out and buy full TDM.
--------------------
-Krug
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Cirxuser
Member
Member # 15349
posted October 29, 2001 06:11 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Digi Engineering:
Are you really looking for information, or did you just come here to insult us?
Eric Day
Digidesign
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Eric , if you read the post carefully u would notice the spirit it was written in was not insulting.Most people dont use the DUC to flame,and I dont consider this guys post as a flame.To me he came across as one of tens of thousands of people who use and love digi products,but get very frustrated when they perceive a loss of direction or a lack of support.
Tounge in cheek posts like this give all of us a chance to have a good comunal chucle about things that make u white-knucle your mouse and swear out loud most of the time.U must understand that most of us who bother to use this board swear by digi gear,faults an all,and we are your best advertisement.We are out there each and everyday not only using your product but also telleng everybody we can find how great it is.Sometimes somebody better informed turns around and tells u "hey hang on with the promotion,what about this feature and that one" and you stand there feeling a little like an idiot.So when someone comes to you to blow off steam a bit the last thing u should do is start acting like a child.Dont you know that excerts from this forum gets posted all over the internet?One always perceives digi as a profesional,addept,if somewhat aloof,but together company,and then someone like u comes along.
And to make matters worse,u did not shed any light on any issue raised by the user,u did not even attemt to answer his quiestions.Which leads me to beleive that you have to be somewhere at the bottom end of the ladder at your company,cause if you are anywhere near management,thats it,game over.
We are all here to help your company create better products,even those of us who get a little personal in their posts.Who could have been a loyal costomer(and probably was) is now another enemy , and i wont even mention the impression of your company gathered by potential customers who happened to read your reply.
In the past posts like this was generaly ignored by digi staff,because they know that when another user realy gets out of line the other members will soon shut him down,but u obviously lack this insight .But when,at the root of a users rants and raves(and jokes),there lies a genuine problem or concern,the least,if any,response from digi should be to appear helpfull, even if they werent aware of the problem or concern,have not made a contigency plan or adopted a policy regarding it , or , such as in your case , appear to be on the verge of mental instability .
I, Eric , unlike the (ex)user who started this thread , am posting this with the sole intent of insulting you , because you deserve no less . And I sincerely hope that the forum moderator deletes your post. They have deleted posts of mine for a lot less in the past . The greater majority of forum members always aim to be at the very least constructive , and set that sort of tone for the forum . Therefore a post like yours , considering the fact that you are attemting to represent the company that brought all of us here , is an utter and almost unforgivable disgrace.
S!
Peter deVries
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DigiKing
Member
Member # 22775
posted October 29, 2001 06:14 PM
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I appreciate the digi001 for the cost and it's cababilites
And Yes I have worked on the 80input SSL9000J and SSL4000J with the G automation and The NeveVR72. And if I'm working or assisting on a Mix Session it's ususally around 48 tracks, so I do appreciate the cababilites of Digi001. And If I had the 10Gs for a Mix Plus 3 system not to mention 50GS for a 48 channel Procontrol, I would Have it. Digidesign may have not intended it for professional use, but you can best belive that Professionals do use it and can't help but to expect professional results because of how we been shaped and mold. It's one thing of working with the Big Boy at work, and it's another thing of doing side projects at home. So I don't think of it as complaining, more of a user feedback type of thing. If Digidesign Keeps seeing the same questions ask over and over and there are enough people saying the same thing, then it becomes a money issue along with possibly cornering another aspect of the market, if they have not corner it yet.
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wartortle
Member
Member # 13234
posted October 29, 2001 06:25 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Digi Engineering:
Are you really looking for information, or did you just come here to insult us?
Eric Day
Digidesign
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, Eric, must you by so cynical? Give Mr. Tortle the benefit of a doubt.
I'd like to know the following:
1) When will there be an update to Pro Tools LE to allow use under Windows XP.
An approximate date or even something nebulous like 'Q1 2003' would be quite helpful and informative. If the release date is far in the future, what reason does Digidesign have for not supporting the now-standard PC operating system?
2) Is DirectConnect for the PC something Digidesign developers made up as a rotten joke on the users, or will it ever be released? If the answer is the latter, approximate release date?
3) ASIO Drivers for PC? Same question(s) as above.
4) 24 tracks?
Tort.
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zedhed
Member
Member # 16111
posted October 29, 2001 06:25 PM
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It's all about money.....of course. Why would digidesign want to make 001 too good a package, when their ultimate goal is too get people into TDM systems.
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Flexx
Member
Member # 18477
posted October 29, 2001 06:31 PM
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Insulting or not,
How does Digidesign expect new comers who have just bought a computer to buy into the Digi001? Or even Pro Tools TDM? Isn't it asking a bit much to expect a user to buy Pro Tools and then go try and find a outdated copy of windows? Many people who are pro's use Win2k or now, WinXP. And yes Pro's are using the Digi001. Perhaps it was never intended to be that way, but it's more true now than ever. With stronger and faster computers many artist, producers and composers would never need anymore than the Digi001. This has be said over and over again.
I have my Digi001 sitting in a box like new while I've been using Neundo w/UAD-1 powered plugins. Both with Win2k drivers and both work in WinXP also. The Digi001 is very convient with it's direct mic-inputs, monitor and headphone jack. But not providing Win2k drivers (WinXP also) takes away from the convience, if you have a new powerful computer (like the two I just built) and want to be able to take advantage of Win2k and WinXP features such as stability and memory management.
Flexx
PS. I don't think any *Digidesign customers* here has the intention to be insulting. The insult, or actually slap in the face if you will, is Digidesign not providing us with updated drivers for the OS that is not only becoming the standard for regular household users, but has been for Pro's. What kind of customer appreciation is that?
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| IP: Logged
wartortle
Member
Member # 13234
posted October 29, 2001 06:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by zedhed:
It's all about money.....of course. Why would digidesign want to make 001 too good a package, when their ultimate goal is too get people into TDM systems.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but Digi must know by now that 'home studio' users are not blind and that they tend to notice things like the fact that Nuendo (not to mention programs like Logic Audio and Digital Performer) can achieve a much higher track count, have similar editing capabilities (well, Nuendo at least ), can integrate far better with virtual instruments/samplers, have tighter and better MIDI capabilities, and work with far more audio hardware. I'm willing to bet that there are at least 90% more 001 users that have migrated to other platforms than there are users who switched to TDM.
Now, I'm not dismissing TDM or PT LE here entirely. I'm just saying that Digidesign needs to come up with some more compelling reasons to keep the high price tags.
Tort-n-Torty
wartortle
Member
Member # 13234
posted October 29, 2001 01:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Digidesign Developers,
By now I am sure you are aware that Windows XP has been released and is the standard operating system shipping on PCs. That is, if I went to the local CompUSA and purchased a PC, it would come with Windows XP preinstalled, not Windows 98 or ME. I don't know if you can even buy Windows 98 or ME in the stores anymore. Why would you want to? My point here is that my brand spanking new computer would not be 'Pro Tools Ready', because it's too up-to-date. I realize that you are keeping the release date of your XP upgrade secret to foil the plans of other companies and trick them into releasing their updates first, but still, it would be nice to give we, the people silly enough to purchase your hardware some vague estimate of when the amazing update will be released. True, you guys are probably spending all of your time adding features to the decrepit TDM platform and working on RocketNetwork support that we poor LE lot can't use, but you've got to have at least a low-paid developer or two working on the XP update. Right?
Oh and what about DirectConnect, ASIO drivers, and QuickTime support. Oh I can't stop laughing... By the way, how about upping the 24 track limit? Maybe just by one? 25 tracks? Please? 24 and a half?
Mr Tortle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| IP: Logged
wartortle
Member
Member # 13234
posted October 29, 2001 01:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, and one point I forgot to mention in my previous post. Microsoft has been pretty forthcoming in their announcements about Windows XP's release. It wasn't a closely guarded secret, so one would figure that perhaps given the knowledge that Windows XP would be coming out in late 2001, Digidesign would hand some developers the betas and tell them to get crackin' on the port. That way, they'd be able to support it upon release. However, it seems that is not the case. Perhaps in the current financial market Digidesign is too poor to afford television sets, Internet access, or newspapers. If this is truly the case, I am willing to purchase a nice overpriced TDM system to help fund Digidesign so that they can afford to keep current.
Let me know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| IP: Logged
Digi Engineering
Administrator
Member # 618
posted October 29, 2001 04:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you really looking for information, or did you just come here to insult us?
Eric Day
Digidesign
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| IP: Logged
Digi9000000
Member
Member # 13994
posted October 29, 2001 04:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isn't that obvious?
who has all this time, that they can flame all day?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| IP: Logged
DigiKing
Member
Member # 22775
posted October 29, 2001 05:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To DigiDesign Engineers
I Respect Protools and Digidesign for all they have allowed me to do. My questions are this.
Will Digidesign even support the XP platform? To my Knowledge they did'nt support windows 2000. Commenting on the last user post about upgrading the track count. Surely 24 tracks is not enough these days given the complexity of some home users recording sessions. Could'nt you up the count to at least 32(if not More) and keep the 24 on the digi tool box level? Even though there are other programs that offer higher track counts, I feel that Protools is a Superior program and I choose to work in that domain.
What about post production support. If I could I would upgrade to the Mother of them all but I can't. Nuendo(inferior Program) offers that support and I know that's your competition so maybe you are considering it.
Higher Midi channels would be a dream. At Least 48 Channel support.
Lastly, Mac and Pc Equality. I'm a pc user and I'm Frustrated that mac has many more features that I would use but are not supported on the Pc Platform, if the digioo1 is cross-platform, then should'nt all of the goodies, plug-ins etc.. be made to cross also?.
Thank You
Dedicated Protools User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| IP: Logged
kdotson
Member
Member # 19359
posted October 29, 2001 05:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a shout out to all the digi Design Engineers. Pro Tools LE is great. Yes it has it's flaws, but to me that's a limation to the platform that it runs on. It disturbs me when Digi001 users get flamed, because there is no support for XP yet. Well maybe they don't consider all the R&D cost that go into porting "things" over. Also if anyone would understand the Digi001 is a home recording studio. Not a Professional. It can be used as a Porfessional, but it was not meant to be. For the amount of money the 001 cost to me right there is a cost savings. You can do everything you can in a real professional recording studio. Anyone that has worked with a SSL and 2in tape would really appreciate the DIGI001. I think the real problem is this. Since the DIGI001 is so easy and simple to setup people are spoiled. Most of the users don't even have the recording concept down. So they think the unit should do things it shouldn't. And one more thing. The most succesful people are people that can adapt. Quit complaing and adapt. Or just go out and buy full TDM.
--------------------
-Krug
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| IP: Logged
Cirxuser
Member
Member # 15349
posted October 29, 2001 06:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Digi Engineering:
Are you really looking for information, or did you just come here to insult us?
Eric Day
Digidesign
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Eric , if you read the post carefully u would notice the spirit it was written in was not insulting.Most people dont use the DUC to flame,and I dont consider this guys post as a flame.To me he came across as one of tens of thousands of people who use and love digi products,but get very frustrated when they perceive a loss of direction or a lack of support.
Tounge in cheek posts like this give all of us a chance to have a good comunal chucle about things that make u white-knucle your mouse and swear out loud most of the time.U must understand that most of us who bother to use this board swear by digi gear,faults an all,and we are your best advertisement.We are out there each and everyday not only using your product but also telleng everybody we can find how great it is.Sometimes somebody better informed turns around and tells u "hey hang on with the promotion,what about this feature and that one" and you stand there feeling a little like an idiot.So when someone comes to you to blow off steam a bit the last thing u should do is start acting like a child.Dont you know that excerts from this forum gets posted all over the internet?One always perceives digi as a profesional,addept,if somewhat aloof,but together company,and then someone like u comes along.
And to make matters worse,u did not shed any light on any issue raised by the user,u did not even attemt to answer his quiestions.Which leads me to beleive that you have to be somewhere at the bottom end of the ladder at your company,cause if you are anywhere near management,thats it,game over.
We are all here to help your company create better products,even those of us who get a little personal in their posts.Who could have been a loyal costomer(and probably was) is now another enemy , and i wont even mention the impression of your company gathered by potential customers who happened to read your reply.
In the past posts like this was generaly ignored by digi staff,because they know that when another user realy gets out of line the other members will soon shut him down,but u obviously lack this insight .But when,at the root of a users rants and raves(and jokes),there lies a genuine problem or concern,the least,if any,response from digi should be to appear helpfull, even if they werent aware of the problem or concern,have not made a contigency plan or adopted a policy regarding it , or , such as in your case , appear to be on the verge of mental instability .
I, Eric , unlike the (ex)user who started this thread , am posting this with the sole intent of insulting you , because you deserve no less . And I sincerely hope that the forum moderator deletes your post. They have deleted posts of mine for a lot less in the past . The greater majority of forum members always aim to be at the very least constructive , and set that sort of tone for the forum . Therefore a post like yours , considering the fact that you are attemting to represent the company that brought all of us here , is an utter and almost unforgivable disgrace.
S!
Peter deVries
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| IP: Logged
DigiKing
Member
Member # 22775
posted October 29, 2001 06:14 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate the digi001 for the cost and it's cababilites
And Yes I have worked on the 80input SSL9000J and SSL4000J with the G automation and The NeveVR72. And if I'm working or assisting on a Mix Session it's ususally around 48 tracks, so I do appreciate the cababilites of Digi001. And If I had the 10Gs for a Mix Plus 3 system not to mention 50GS for a 48 channel Procontrol, I would Have it. Digidesign may have not intended it for professional use, but you can best belive that Professionals do use it and can't help but to expect professional results because of how we been shaped and mold. It's one thing of working with the Big Boy at work, and it's another thing of doing side projects at home. So I don't think of it as complaining, more of a user feedback type of thing. If Digidesign Keeps seeing the same questions ask over and over and there are enough people saying the same thing, then it becomes a money issue along with possibly cornering another aspect of the market, if they have not corner it yet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| IP: Logged
wartortle
Member
Member # 13234
posted October 29, 2001 06:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Digi Engineering:
Are you really looking for information, or did you just come here to insult us?
Eric Day
Digidesign
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, Eric, must you by so cynical? Give Mr. Tortle the benefit of a doubt.
I'd like to know the following:
1) When will there be an update to Pro Tools LE to allow use under Windows XP.
An approximate date or even something nebulous like 'Q1 2003' would be quite helpful and informative. If the release date is far in the future, what reason does Digidesign have for not supporting the now-standard PC operating system?
2) Is DirectConnect for the PC something Digidesign developers made up as a rotten joke on the users, or will it ever be released? If the answer is the latter, approximate release date?
3) ASIO Drivers for PC? Same question(s) as above.
4) 24 tracks?
Tort.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| IP: Logged
zedhed
Member
Member # 16111
posted October 29, 2001 06:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about money.....of course. Why would digidesign want to make 001 too good a package, when their ultimate goal is too get people into TDM systems.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| IP: Logged
Flexx
Member
Member # 18477
posted October 29, 2001 06:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Insulting or not,
How does Digidesign expect new comers who have just bought a computer to buy into the Digi001? Or even Pro Tools TDM? Isn't it asking a bit much to expect a user to buy Pro Tools and then go try and find a outdated copy of windows? Many people who are pro's use Win2k or now, WinXP. And yes Pro's are using the Digi001. Perhaps it was never intended to be that way, but it's more true now than ever. With stronger and faster computers many artist, producers and composers would never need anymore than the Digi001. This has be said over and over again.
I have my Digi001 sitting in a box like new while I've been using Neundo w/UAD-1 powered plugins. Both with Win2k drivers and both work in WinXP also. The Digi001 is very convient with it's direct mic-inputs, monitor and headphone jack. But not providing Win2k drivers (WinXP also) takes away from the convience, if you have a new powerful computer (like the two I just built) and want to be able to take advantage of Win2k and WinXP features such as stability and memory management.
Flexx
PS. I don't think any *Digidesign customers* here has the intention to be insulting. The insult, or actually slap in the face if you will, is Digidesign not providing us with updated drivers for the OS that is not only becoming the standard for regular household users, but has been for Pro's. What kind of customer appreciation is that?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| IP: Logged
wartortle
Member
Member # 13234
posted October 29, 2001 06:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by zedhed:
It's all about money.....of course. Why would digidesign want to make 001 too good a package, when their ultimate goal is too get people into TDM systems.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but Digi must know by now that 'home studio' users are not blind and that they tend to notice things like the fact that Nuendo (not to mention programs like Logic Audio and Digital Performer) can achieve a much higher track count, have similar editing capabilities (well, Nuendo at least ), can integrate far better with virtual instruments/samplers, have tighter and better MIDI capabilities, and work with far more audio hardware. I'm willing to bet that there are at least 90% more 001 users that have migrated to other platforms than there are users who switched to TDM.
Now, I'm not dismissing TDM or PT LE here entirely. I'm just saying that Digidesign needs to come up with some more compelling reasons to keep the high price tags.
Tort-n-Torty