what plug ins sound as good as a QUALITY out board piece for reverb or multi fx? any

[matt palmer]

are plug ins capable of sounding as good as an outboard unit. like the reverb on my lexicon mpx-1, sounds sweet. can i achieve that or better with a plug in? thanks
which ones?

[Ivo]

I am afraid that so far no plug-in can produce better reverb than Lexicon does. D-Verb and True Verb sound quite metallic and artificial, Ren Reverb is slightly better, but still - if you compare to Lexicon, one has to admit that it sounds much more mellow and natural (not speaking that Ren reverb consumes half of your CPU power ...). If you want a nice and natural reverb, sticking to Lexicon is the only way, I think. But there is nothing wrong in having an outer hardware unit. You can connect your MPX 1 digitally too.

[hardisk]

Wave ren-Verb rocks! you can get with it sounds no Lexicon can do... but also you can do with lexicon sounds Ren-verb cannot do!

In my opinion the Waves Ren-Verb is first class.

TC is ok, but the waves ren-verb is better in my mind

[lwilliam]

The Ren Verb sounds pretty good - definitely better than Trueverb. Since it's so CPU-intensive, I haven't used it too much (my sessions are too large and complex, so I use external verbs).

Realverb is probably the best (IMHO) plugin verb, but only available for RTAS and RAS. The TC Mega Reverb for TDM is supposed to be very good as is the Digi Reverb One.

I would compare the Ren Verb and Realverb in quality to about the level of the Lexi MPX500. I haven't a/b'ed them, but your MPX-1 is probably better than anything you'll find in a host-based reverb plugin.

I haven't heard the TDM verbs, but I've heard nothing in a plugin that compares with a PCM91.

Audioease is going to be releasing the Altiverb for Digital Performer, that may change things...

[BostonCake]

I'd get TC's, Sonic Timeworks or Waves. TC Native Bundle's Reverb uses the same algorithm as the M3000. I grilled TC Works on this before I got it (actually, I believe TC Natve Essentials' Reverb uses the same alg. but you get "less" UI in TCNE than in TCNB). Many claim Sonic Timework's to be very good (and very CPU efficient as well). The "hands down" winner appears to be Waves, but it is also the most recently released and by far the most CPU hungry.

Bottom line, unless you spend well over 1K, probably more than 2K, you won't find a HW reverb that is better or as flexible as a SW DX plug in. Also, you'll probably run 2, maybe 3, reverb plug ins on your mixes (cause you'll be able to) simultaneously. That's ... like 5K in TC boxes alone.

So, you could spend 5K+ on 2 M3000s or $300-400 on a bundle and get a high quality reverb plus whatever's in the bundle (Ren Comp, Ren Eq, Native DeX, Native Eq, etc.).

Best of luck.

[Cauldronics]

Originally posted by lwilliam:


Realverb is probably the best (IMHO) plugin verb, but only available for RTAS and RAS. The TC Mega Reverb for TDM is supposed to be very good as is the Digi Reverb One.


I believe it is also available for TDM. I like the TCMegaReverb a lot, but it's not as good as anything from the TC M2000 on up.


I would compare the Ren Verb and Realverb in quality to about the level of the Lexi MPX500. I haven't a/b'ed them, but your MPX-1 is probably better than anything you'll find in a host-based reverb plugin.

I have a/b'd the MPX-1 with D-Verb, TCMegaReverb, Truverb, and RenVerb. The MPX doesn't even come close to these plug-ins as a reverb IMO. I'm using TDM, so that might have something to do with these plug-ins sounding better than host. I sold my MPX-1 after hearing how crappy it sounded next to these 'verbs. It sounds like a toy in comparison, and I think even the old LXP-1 and LXP-15 sound much better.


I haven't heard the TDM verbs, but I've heard nothing in a plugin that compares with a PCM91.

You got that right, but I haven't heard RealVerb or Digi's Reverb One yet. It seems with the cheaper plug-in reverbs, that you still get what what you pay for, so you're best off buying the best external box you can
afford.

You may have noticed that most people here have differing opinions on this topic. Also, it might've been best to ask people which reverbn sounds best for your particular platform and setup, because there are so many variables to that answer these days.

Hope this helps,

Cauldronics

[knowdoubt]

matt palmer,

Your instincts are right. On a 1 track to 1 track comparison, no, the best reverb plugin doesn't surpass or equal the quality of the best outboard reverb unit, but they are still quite good & with the added flexibility, ease & spead of configuration, IMHO, anyone working with a computer based DAW that isn't making big use of Reverb plugins (or any plugins for that matter) is kicking themselves in the arse & missing the boat big time. In fact I believe much of the time the finished project will actually turn out better using plugins because of the increased freedom & ease of experimenting with different routings, mixes & settings. I'm not saying you would be satisfied to get rid of your Lexicon, but you definitely need to start working with a plugin or 2 also. I recommend you try some demos to see what might agree with you. Some recommendations are, Waves Renaissance Reverb & TrueVerb, TC Native Reverb, Timeworcks 4080L & Arboretum's HyperVerb. Also you might try the fairly decent downloadable free direct-X/VST reverb called Freeverb ( http://home.onet.co.uk/~jzracc/freeverb.htm ) to sink your teeth into a complete project & get an idea if you would be happy with one of the better plugins mentioned above before purchasing any of them.

Cheers. http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[malcolm]

DX verb's not impressive at all only cost effective. EQ's and comps work good. I have
TC bundle Waves gold Bundle and have move on to hardware units for Verb's and am much better off.What I did was buy one pcm91 and a eventide DSP 7000, i dont have the money for racks of units but I have fast scsi hard drives and a fast sound card with adat light pipe so i can lay down verb tracks next to the main tracks. I can then either raise levels or if i want a different verb just run the track out to lex and record it to a different track and have a new verb in its place. this works for me and turns my few hardware units into a monter rack. I know have 40 tracks of lex pcm91 if I want vs 2 ren verbs or 6 ture verbs. I takes me 15 min to re-record a verb track if its not right plugs are faster but not better.

[CodyG]

Double ditto's on the "great hardware stomps great plug-ins".

I've used Ren-verb quite a bit and for a plug it's very good. But it can't hold a candle to either of my PCM91 Lexicons. Of course they cost about$2K each but the sound quality is absolutely the best.

We've A/B the PCM91 even to the 300L. In my opinion the PCM is every bit as good. The thing that really strikes me is the A/D and D/A resolution is only 20 bit but PCM 20 bit is head and shoulders above any 24 bit, 32 bit, or Xxx bit software plug-ins I've ever heard.

Not sure how they do it but Lexicon really knows their collective "stuff".

[TensTheBlend]

I have a Pentium 1ghz system with Cakewalk 9,
a Delta 66, Ren Reverb (native), and an MPX1 Lexicon. I would say that for most of my demo work for hire here in Nashville, I just use the Ren Reverb plugin, as time is a BIG issue. All of my clients seem quite happy with the results. However today I just connected my MPX1 via spdif, and the Lexicon does sound considerably better than the plugin. I would say on those particular sessions where I can afford the extra time to print the reverb to it's own tracks for mixing, it will be worth the effort. My guess is that "plugin" reverb is a few years away from really being equal in true sound quality. However $ for $, the plugin is already a bargain. Obviously computer horsepower will play a big part of this revolution.

[Hendrik]

btw. I don´t think that the PCM91 is even good as the 300L. I have both and i can tell you the 300L is really better. But now to the hardware/software discussion: All the handling you love on all these PlugIns you get with the LARC remote on a big Lexicon. And the Quality is much better. But now comes the problem. The 300L cost 7000$ and the RenRev cost 500$ (?). Is the difference in the price the same in the quality? No. When you have the money to buy a big Lexicon (224/300/480) do it, you will love it, but if you don´t you have with the RenRev a very good tool to mix every Song right. You need a very good Hardware reverb to get an better quality then the RenRev. Nobody will hear the difference (o.k.some people perhaps, but they will here also the difference between a 24bit rcording and a 23bit recording) And if the song is right and the artist is good, nobody will tell you: "well it sounds very good, but the reverb is cheap!" So make music........ (my english is not so good, i hope you understand what i wanted to say)
Regards,
Hendrik

[This message has been edited by Hendrik (edited 06-03-2001).]