meter reading incorrectly

[Sip]

I have clip lights going off even though my wave is not clipped. I've looked at the stats, and in other programs the waves were fine.

[Ben]

Yep, I've noticed this before too. The meters on CEP are inaccurate - with clip meters often lighting below 0dB.

If you want to make sure if your WAV is clipping or not, check the levels on Sound Forge if you've got it - very accurate metering.

Ben

[P H Music]

When transferring meterial into CEPro1.2a, I also have a couple of thousand dollars worth of broadcast PPM and phase scope from DK Audio (MSD200) across the digital output from the computer. I don't find the CEP meters but any meter system has characteristics designed into it including attack time, integration time and release time as well as issues of scaling. SOme backhround to these issues is provided in various text books and also in one of my technical articles "Metering" found at www.phmusic.co.uk. (http://www.phmusic.co.uk.)

I suspect that what you are getting are overload products caused by transients too fast to register on the CEP meter. That does not mean they are not accurate, just that they are not ideal for the programme material you are recording. When recording material that has not already been processed (compressed/limited etc.), one should leave a decent headroom. European broadcast standards would suggest about 10 dBU safety margin above the highest reading peaks.

Only after tweaking gains, applying eq etc and arriving at final mixdown is a suitablet time to normalise your material so that peaks as highly as commercial (i.e. finished!) CDs.

Good luck,
Peter

P H Music
GB

[Syntrillium Support]

Yep, I've noticed this before too. The meters on CEP are inaccurate - with clip meters often lighting below 0dB.


The clip meters are accurate. CEP has lots of options. Even the VU meter itself has several different options. You have the wrong option selected if you are getting clipping and you should not be getting it.

Right click on the VU meter and there is an option called "Adjust for DC" or something like that. Simply check that option or if it is checked, un-check it. This should fix your problem.

The same "Adjust for DC" option is in Options > Settings > Devices. Basically you want this option to match the one in the VU meter. you can turn both of them off or both of them on.

--Syntrillium Support

[Ben]

I don't want to get into a fight with Syntrillium...suffice to say the meters on CEP are NOT accurate.

Here's a nice little test for you. Digitally rip a CD - obviously CDs are mastered as near to 0dB as possible - and load into CEP. You'll find that on many occassions to the meters will say the track is clipping; other software is likely to tell you the tracks something like -0.1dB or even 0dB... but not clipping.

Which one's correct? Well, I work in a fully digital studio with some very precise rack metering...and I can tell you that unfortunately it is CEP that is wrong.

Ben

[Syntrillium Support]

Hi Ben,

Well, if there is really a problem in CEP, I would like to know. So I would appreciate if you could please mail us a file that has this problem. We can check it out and see if there is in fact a bug in CEP.

You can send the file to support2@syntrillium.com
Make sure the file is less than 20 MB. Also describe the problem so that I know what I'm looking for. I'll let you know what we find out.

--Syntrillium Support

[Sip]

I believe that you're right Ben, and I'm glad that I'm not the only one to notice this. If you can send them a file, that would be cool. I'm on dial up so it would take forever. Maybe they can fix the problem.

To the support guys, "don't take it personally, I like the program."

[Ben]

Well I'm afraid I haven't really got the time to email a big file to you either. As I said, just try ripping in a recent commercially released track and you might see what I mean...

And, as Sip said, this is just pointing out what I believe to be a bug; it's not a criticism. I think it was brought up a long time ago on this forum. Anyway, sounds like we might have CEP 2 to look forward to very shortly...

Ben

[clintfan]

Ben,

My god, man, they're listening to you! Send 'em the file, already! How often does one get this chance?

-clintfan

[Ben]

Clint - as I've already pointed out, it's not a specific file. Happens all the time (in Single Waveform view, by the way).

Most recent commercial releases, for example, are mastered and finalized to hell and back; very near to 0dB, but most (though not all!) shouldn't clip. In other software and with other metering, you won't see any overloads going on. But with CEP, you will...

Go ahead and test it for yourself.

Ben

[This message has been edited by Ben (edited 12-06-2001).]