Computer Speakers vs Studio Monitors

[Jon Aeolian]

I am building an entry level, home DAW with the following components:

P4 (2.53 GHz)
Audiophile 24/96
512 MB Rambus RIMM (PC-1066MHz)
Western Digital 80GB HD (w 8mb buffer)

I am not sure what type of speakers to get relative to my system and needs. I will be using my system for 1-2 track home recording (vox & guitar) with added MIDI. I will be using the computer speakers for recording as well as MP3's, games, computer sounds, etc.

My main questions are:

How much should I spend on speakers/monitors relative to the cost of my system?
Can I use computer speakers with subwoofer for my monitoring needs?
What are the drawbacks of using computer speakers?

[Pretty Pretty Cyanide]

Well I am pretty new in this area as I just got some Behringer Truths.

The difference is night and day.

Computer speakers add flavor\color to your sound so when you play it in where a monitor system is (at a bar, wedding, maybe even car or whathaveyou). You will not get what you recorded.

Monitors try to push through the sound without flavouring so you get what you hear.

I use altecs for gaming. I can hear major differences between the 2 and the Truths are more the middle of road flat responders.

[DimitriDL]

Hey Jon, I'd stay away from computer speakers if I were you. There has been a very major trend lately in making computer speakers very tiny, and adding a big ass sub to them to complement for their weakness. As a result, most of the "computer speakers" today have a an over-bloated bottom, no midrange and nasty high-end that makes you wanna puke after a few hours of listening. That's, by far, the worst thing you'd want for monitoring.

For monitors you definitely want dedicated speakers that were created for that purpose. You want something that gives you an flat and crisp sound that does not provoke ear fatigue. There are a bunch of choices. Event PS6/PS8/TR8, KRK, Alesis, Behringer. All can be had for under $600.

Spend at least $400 on them and get ones whose main drivers are at least 6" in diameter. You'll discover a whole new world. Be brave enough to make the step, even though you may not be sure what exactly you will be doing it for. You'll thank me later.

[Kwcbv]

Hey Jon,

If you are on a tight budget and don't require professional studio quality, I can suggest the M-Audio BX5 studiophile speakers at around $300 over any multimedia speakers. I have a pair of the predecessors (SB-5?) in my Italian home-away-from-home studio and think they are great for the price.

Multimedia speakers will not allow you to enjoy the music you will make.

KC

[Synctr]

I do recall Sound On Sound giving these MAudio nearfields a poor review....have MAudio revamped & improved the design?

further to the thread....there has been some discussion/research in recent Sound On Sound issues regarding the ability of some playback loudspeakers being as good at near field monitoring as they are at playing back for entertainment....compring the likes of say, Tannoy Reveals to B&W & the results were rather encouraging

....don't forget about the listening environment (room acoustics)...what I have done in the past is compare many speakers (three pairs ie: A, B & C)... & use a multi-disc player to audition....don't forget that you want your music to sound great on all speaker systems, & checking the playback on lower quality as well as high quality systems should be a part of your equasion.

-CT

[Kwcbv]

The BX5's are the new model, but I havn't heard them. I must confess, these speakers are not in the same class of the Mackies. I would not recommend them if someone wanted to do serious mastering. I think their true value lies in satisfying the needs of home musicians who are more focused on creating music rather than perfecting it.

Here is a really wacky solution that was designed for me when I first set up a home recording studio. Buy 2 Roland K300 mixer amps that have 4 channels plus a stereo out, and use them for stereo output from the keyboard synth. And, use one channel for the monitoring of the computer audio output, which in my case was mostly Gigasampler and sometimes softsynths. In this way all the outputs go through the same speakers and it is essentially a PA system. The problem came when it was time to record the midi as audio and to add my guitar tracks. Then I had to split the amps and use one for monitoring everything and the other as the input source. I found that this solution was great for jamming and creating the music, and even for mixing. The problem was it was a horrible situation for mastering, as the big 12 inch woofers handled the lower end better than my Paul Barton stereo speakers and every time I burnt a CD it sounded muddy on my stereo, but great on my computer. It was then that I learned creating and mixing music are completely different from mastering music, which requires real monitors, and real engineers.

Since I spent most of my time jamming and creating the songs this setup didn't bother me so much. But, when it became time to record everything I gave up and bought the SP-5s just to avoid the time spent rewiring the inputs and outputs. Honestly, I still prefer to hear the computer output through the two mixer amps, but when I go to create a CD I do a quick and dirty mastering through the SP-5s, which are better matched for a home stereo.

[donsaudio]

Your decision should depend on how far you want to go with making music. Mixing on computer speakers isn't necessarily the end of the world, but your may find that your mixes will sound very different when played on other systems.
If I had to start over again I definately would concentrate on acquiring gear that allowed me to get the best signal I could to disk (mics, mic pre etc...). before even considering getting to the mixing stage, this point is most critical. If the signal you are recording sounds crappy going in, it will sound crappy coming out.
If you have all the gear you need, just ignore my rant and go buy some nice monitors!
Good Luck,
Don http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif

[DimitriDL]

Donsaudio, I beg to differ.

I'd take a Sound Blaster and a pair of nice monitors over a nice sound card and a pair of computer speakers any day.

In order to get a pleasant-sounding recording on a very low budget monitors are more important than the mic/preamp/sound card in my opinion.

Without monitors you'll be blind. Even if your mic/preamp/card give you a nice sound, you won't be able to appreciate it and you won't be able to alter it in the right direction.

Even if you have a crappy signal coming in, with good monitors you'll be able to balance it out and make it sound relatively pleasant in the mix.

Whereas if you just have a great input signal chain but no monitors, your mixes may be crisp and clean, but way off in terms of balance and dynamics.

A listener will be thrown off more by a recording that has overwhelming bass/piercing vocals/too much distorted guitar than a recording that doesn't sound very crisp and detailed, but is balanced.

Good monitors above all, in my humble opinion.

[donsaudio]

DimitriDL,
Point well taken. At the risk of contradicting my previous post, I do agree with you. There is no doubt a pair of decent monitors are invaluable in any home/pro studio.
After re-reading my post more carefully, I guess I should have been a little clearer (my apologies). My whole point was that every peice of the studio, from the mixer to proper grounding, plays a huge part in how succesful your recordings are/will be (musical talent aside). Again don't get me wrong. I am by no means a gear snob. I started the hard way like a lot of folks here, and I sincerely beleive you can get impressive results with less gear than the profession would have us beleive.
While I do beleive monitors do help get your 'ears on straight', a poor recording can be difficult to set into a mix.
Now, enough of my ranting again LOL.
Again if I have mislead, I do apologize.
Regards,
Don

[Nick Driver]

A pair of Alesis M1 Active MkII amplified studio monitors is $399 at Musician's Friend website. They sound very good. If that's too rich for your blood, the cheaper M-Audio SP-5B Studiophile active monitors are only $199.

[Bops2000]

Heres what I did:
I found a deal at brands mart for some jbl indoor/outdoor speakers at $9.00 each, thats right 9 bucks. - here me out here.
I bought 2 pairs of which one set is in the patio http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif
I run my marantz 100 watt stereo amp as my 'power' amp for my home daw along with some big monster sansui speakers. Really boom sizzle stuff, I also have the jbl's as 'speaker b' (I have pushed these things at about 80 watts I'm guessin), then I have headphones to decide 'discreet stereo depth' for lack of a better analogy, at end of day, I slap the test cd in the car.
I'm happy and It's enough to sound Pro with a little TLC.
Just a economical attack. Having Pro quality stuff is of course the goal, but food for thought jazz player dizzie gillepse played on a beat up old trumpet and to him it worked 'jus fine'.
regards
bops

[Jon Aeolian]

Thanks for all the wisdom. Much appreciated!

I do have a few more inquiries:

Should I get a subwoofer to complement the studio monitors? Benefits/Drawbacks?

Will using the studio monitors for all my computer sound needs (mp3's, gaming, etc.) have any negative effects on the speakers and on my hearing?

[TeleCarlos]

I am also in the market for some decent but reasonably priced monitors.

I think i may have narrowed down to any of these two models:

-Alesis Monitor One mk2 powered monitors ($399/pair)
-Behringer Truth Monitors ($399/pair)

They are both 6"inches, bi-amped and priced just right for a hobbyist like me.

So please, do coment on which way to go with these, good or bad, recomendations are welcome. I'll be running them from the outs of the Omni i/o(Delta66).

Has anyone heard how these type of monitors sound thru the outs of a DVD player? I'm guessing I could watch my DVD concerts and hear them thru the monitors (in stereo, don't like 5.1) and enjoy the hifi mix that the engineer may have done. Just a thought.

Take care guys.

[Pretty Pretty Cyanide]

I run the Truths and I like 'em. I don't believe they need subwoofers.

I wouldn't use monitors for games too.

[XenosoniK]

i was comparing the truths and the alesis monitors too. the measurements are actually 6" for the alesis and 8" for the behringers. i'm leaning more toward the behringers as of right now.

-Xeno

[decoy7]

computer speakers?

you are taking the pi$$!

[TeleCarlos]

So the Behringer Truths have 8 inches of bass thumping, sound prroducing, noise offending cone diameter....hhmmmm. Guess bigger is better.

Tell you what, if anyone can disuade me from getting the Truths, I'll just get those. For the money ($399/pair) they seem they are the deal!

Take care,

[Robert D]

Hey - It's not the size of the woofer, it's the motion of the cone, and how tight the enclosure is! http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Seriously, don't choose a pair of monitors based on the speaker size, especially for nearfield monitoring. I'm not saying anything about any particular speaker, just that you should be more concerned with accuracy, spatial imaging, and a focused bass response. Use your ears, not a ruler. http://www.audioforums.com/forums/wink.gif
RD

[XenosoniK]

Originally posted by Robert D:
Hey - It's not the size of the woofer, it's the motion of the cone, and how tight the enclosure is! http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif
RD

hahaha. that's a good one.

yeah. accuracy is more important. but when you are getting monitors with only 5" woofers then you start to lose a lot of bass response that you need.

-Xeno

[Robert D]

5 inch? Yeah, that's gettin pretty small. I thought we were talking 6" vs 8". I'll stand by my previous post, but 5" is definitely cause for pause. If I lived in antarctica, and there was no way I could listen before I bought, I wouldn't even think about buying monitors with 5" speakers, and if I was at a good pro audio shop, I'll admit I'd probably never A/B them unless they were Genelecs or some other high end name. I'm guessing that getting good bass response out of a 5" speaker involves compromises in the design that hurt the overall accuracy of the monitor, not that I know much about speaker design.
RD

[knowdoubt]

Well... it also depends on whether you're using the male or female scale for measurement & the manufacturers never specify which? I think 8" on the male scale actually equates to about 6" on the female scale. http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Remember that a necessary criteria that must be met for a monitor to be considered nearfield is - compact (closely spaced) small drivers. If the drivers are to large there becomes to much distance between the on axis response of the individual drivers in the unit for the crossed over sound from the individual drivers (woofer, tweeter & sometimes mid) to integrate well at close monitoring distance.

8" woofer is about the absolute max for a system to be truly considered nearfield & I wouldn't necessarily consider it unreasonable for someone to argue it's over the limit. Depends on how near you consider to be near.

Headphones are about as nearfield as it gets & notice how small their drivers are. http://www.audioforums.com/forums/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by knowdoubt (edited 02-19-2003).]

[TeleCarlos]

Alright guys, let's stop the nerd talk. I've read all about monitors and how to choose, blah, blah.

Point is i have no speakers right now, anything better than headphones will do and for $399.00, what the hell. I am certain Alesis and Behringer are more than good enuff for me. Besides, I'll never be doing a major label thing so... and my ears are crappy anyway.

I think all we want is a little tip one way or the other: for the same price which we should I (or we) go

A) 6" alesis mk2's
B) 8" Berihnger Truths

Come on, easy for you pros's; A or B?
What do you think might be better?

Love you all'

[Sonic Valley]

Go with C...lol

[Jon Aeolian]

I am still not sure if I should add a subwoofer to my home studio. Some audio nuts say that a subwoofer is the only way to get a full range frequency respose (i.e down to the lower limit of hearing or 20hz) and that most people will be listening to your recordings in a system with a subwoofer.

So which should I choose:

A) 6" Alesis MK2 (6.5" dia) = $400
B) 8" Behringer Truths (8.75" dia) = $400

or

C) 5" Studiophile SP-5B (5.25" dia) with the Studiophile SP-8S subwoofer = $600

What do you guys think?
Are there any other low priced subwoofers out there for a home studio?

So many choices...
So many factors...

[Bops2000]

It's only money.
And I guess speakers are pretty important.
I am beginning to realize they're are some serious 'rigs' out there. Makes it even more fun to challenge the pro's with economical stuff.
That was not in offense, I still listen to beatles four tracks and usually learn somthing each time.
Are 'nearfields' positioned by where you are sitting? or based on how they project ? never mind - dumb question...

[Pretty Pretty Cyanide]

behringer da bomb yo

that enough anti=nerd for ya?


I'd go with Behringer cos I have them. I don't have the option to compare them with Alesis ones.

So I will go with what I know http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif and recommend Behringer

[Michael Quayle]

The Behringer certainly seem to take it in the budget powered monitor category. I haven't heard them or the studiophiles myself, but the Behringer seem to be getting the more favourable reviews. Personally I find it a rather dangerous question to be asking other people "what monitors should I buy - A or B?" - the whole point is monitors are an *incredibly* personal choice and you shouldn't even THINK about buying any unless you audition them properly - so go down to your nearest store with a couple of CD's you know well, and audition A against B - don't ask US which one to get cos there's a solid 50% chance that our advice is going to be absolutley useless.

[This message has been edited by Michael Quayle (edited 02-19-2003).]

[knowdoubt]

I would recommend a subwoofer/satellite system only if you get a decent one. I use one myself. I don't know of any good subwoofer/satellite systems to recommend though because I built my own. I will warn you though that they're a little more complex for a good & well setup system & it would be better to have a good non subwoofer/satallite system than to have a crappy subwoofer/satellite system. I do think it's very important to be able to hear what is way down there in the bottom of your mix so you don't overcompensate poor bass response or accidentally have unwanted sub tones down there you don't want & so you know what your mix will sound like to someone else that has a full range system to play it on.

Regardless of all this talk, in the end, anyone needs to audition speakers for themselves. Your a fool if you buy any speaker system based solely on a recommendation. Recommendations are only good for pointing you where to give a listen. I know not all options are readily accessible to everyone for auditioning. Then it's time to consider & shop the return policies. http://www.audioforums.com/forums/wink.gif

[howie15]

If I had to choose: A or B
Truths probably. Just not impressed with Alesis still. The sun shines on a dog's ass every now and then and Alesis has set the sunshine record with the ADAT's. Although Behringer has a reputation for ripping off every other design. hmm...solution: JBL LSR25P's Smaller than the truths, about the same price, more acurate. Sorry, only 5.25" woofer! haha. But very clean, accurate and very good for a desktop situation. The truths are twice the size of the LSR's
Howie

[Robert D]

Yes, PLEASE don't buy monitors you haven't heard, and see if you can listen to some KRK V6's while your at it. Take a bus trip if you have to, but go somewhere where they have several monitors for you to compare at the same time.
RD

[TeleCarlos]

How many "producers" does it take to screw on a light bulb?

Don't know...it all depends on the watts rating of the light bulb, what the location of installation, the speed of the actual "screwing in".... so many factors.

I swear, there definitely is more diplomatic correctness in this forum than at those funny U.N. meetings!!!!!!!

I made up my mind on what monitors I'll get. Either way I choose, I would have been happy. ANYTHING would have been better than silly stereo speakers. And besides, its only $400.00 I was gonna throw away so what the hell. But thanks anyway.

There are a lot of pros here and I truly appreciate everybody's posts. Hell, i am even a fan of you guys, I come here to learn and you guys have a lot of knowledge so thanks.

Take care guys,
and keep up the humor.

[Pretty Pretty Cyanide]

I still insist we set up patriot missles for Robert D in case Bops retaliates.

[XenosoniK]

you are gonna train your ears to your monitors anyway. get the ones that sound best to you at first and then your ears will grow accustomed to them.

8.75"...wow...that's nearly...<thinks>...9"!

actually, robert, i've been to an online music store where the truths were actually categorized as MIDFIELD monitors. might want to take a note on that, everybody.

-Xeno

[Robert D]

There's a term you don't hear too often.
RD

[knowdoubt]

Originally posted by XenosoniK:

actually, robert, i've been to an online music store where the truths were actually categorized as MIDFIELD monitors. might want to take a note on that, everybody.



Originally posted by knowdoubt:

Remember that a necessary criteria that must be met for a monitor to be considered nearfield is - compact (closely spaced) small drivers. If the drivers are to large there becomes to much distance between the on axis response of the individual drivers in the unit for the crossed over sound from the individual drivers (woofer, tweeter & sometimes mid) to integrate well at close monitoring distance.

8" woofer is about the absolute max for a system to be truly considered nearfield & I wouldn't necessarily consider it unreasonable for someone to argue it's over the limit. Depends on how near you consider to be near.


http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif

[Michael Quayle]

Originally posted by TeleCarlos:


I swear, there definitely is more diplomatic correctness in this forum than at those funny U.N. meetings!!!!!!!



Whaetver that's meant to mean.

[XenosoniK]

whoops. i'm sorry. my previous statement should have been made to knowdoubt.

sorry again! http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

-Xeno

[Bops2000]

"still insist we set up patriot missles for Robert D in case Bops retaliates".

lolol Patriot missles are like so LATENT in tracking scusi missles - Maybe
http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif