Fully weighted 88 note keyboard for live performance?

[loopychoon]

Hi,
I've got a friend who needs said type of keyboard that is strictly for live work and as such needs to be portable, sturdy and reliable. It does not need to have 127 note polyphony but must feature useful organ and piano sounds.
We're looking to find some impartial advice on the available options or any relevant forum and/or resource links -
cheers
loopy

[vox]

There's a company called Fatar that makes a whole bunch of different weighted/nonweighted stuff. I'm not a keyboardist, but I think they are supposed to make good stuff.

[GDANCE]

Hi

Have you looked at Roland XV88 , its there new stage keyboard the sounds are exellent and the keyboard action is as close to a real piano as can find, if thats to dear try to find its older model the A-90ex there are less sounds but the action is great and the piano and organ sound are very good.
Try them out and see what you think.

Best of luck

GDANCE http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[AVS]

Hi
If you need the best keyboard touch response and great piano sound - Yamaha P80 is the best http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif
I've tried FATAR-880 - it's not real piano response - very light
But... P80 hasn't wheels for pitch and vibrato controlling...

AlexVS

[bcwdwks]

I wanted to second the vote for the Yamaha p80 or s80. There're the closest to the real thing that I've come across. The hammer action is very nice. Sounds beautiful.
Good luck
Bruce

[loopychoon]

Thanks for all the replies.
We are not really looking for a synth, more a good quality piano/hammond response and sound for gigs + preferably basic midi functions for composition.

Anyone know how the Yamaha P80,the Roland XV88 and Technics SP30 and SP50 compare?

Cheers!


[This message has been edited by loopychoon (edited 03-03-2001).]

[OpenDoerr]

The XV is probably the cream of the crop, but you're also buying a full featured synth engine which drives up the price quite a bit.

If all he needs is a full 88 key weighted board with good pianos and organs for stage use, the following options are probably the most appropriate:

1) Yamaha P200
I've seen more pros using this board than any other. Great feel and terrific piano samples across the whole range of the keyboard. Especially in the low-mid range which is where most piano samples fall short. It also has useable organs and electric keys sounds though it is limited in tones. The goal with this board is to do a few things really well rather than a ton of things mediocre. The P200 falls way short in the portability department though. It's a heavy mother since it has two speakers built in. Unless he gets a case with wheels, he's going to need some help hauling a P200 around.

2) Yamaha S80
Again, great feel since it has the same keybed as the P200. It's not as heavy since it's sans speakers. The S80 has more stock sounds. It has a full GM set so you'll have plenty of pianos and organs to choose from as well all the other stuff that synths have. The stock pianos are not up to par with the P200, but you can buy an expansion card called the PLG150 that adds piano samples to the S80 that are much better. As far as expandability and external control of other sound modules are concerned, the S80 is the best option, but it's not the best sounding machine out of the box.

3) Korg SGProX

I've got one of these and I love it. The model is about 3 1/2 years old, so most stores won't stock it, but Korg still manufactures and supports it. It sort of splits the difference between the P200 and the S80. The feel is the same as both the P200 and S80 since Korg uses Yamaha keybeds as well. It comes with 24 Megs of samples that comprise 64 different pathches. Most of them are Piano and E-Keys, but there are usable organs as well. It has 10 high quality effects that can add alot of depth to the sounds. One of the features that I really appreciate is the on board five band EQ. It really helps in a pinch when the room you're playing in starts screwing your sounds up. You can just slide up the high end a bit to make sure that you'll still cut through the mix. Also, is has 4 assignable sliders that you can use to control just about anything you want. From the sounds on other modules, to just controlling effects and tones on the SG itself. It really is a great board and since it's older, the price point is pretty reasonable.

Kurzweil also has a great board in the PC-88 and their newer PC2. Kurz uses Fatar keybeds, so their feel is a little different. Some like it because the feel is a little chunkier and makes it easier to play quick runs. On the other hand, some feel like the Fatar keybeds are a little anemic when it comes to laying down big chords since the resistance from the keys isn't as strong. The only true test of the feel is to try it out yourself though.

Hope this helps.

OD

p.s. As far as sturdiness goes, both the P200 and the SGProX are built like tanks. He shouldn't have any reliability problems with those. I can't comment on the S80, but it's probably pretty safe as well. I've had trouble in the past with the Kurz boards losing slider functionality and one I've played had lost use of it's middle C. It was used pretty heavily by different people though, so that particular board may not have been a fair example.

[This message has been edited by OpenDoerr (edited 03-05-2001).]

[loopychoon]

Hey OD! Thanks for the info! You speakin our language man!
Well I told my friend about your post but he wont get to see it now til Saturday cos he's practising tonight and I'm busy all day Thursday and Friday but we'll be following up shortly..
Cheers
loopy

[Norm]

Does anyone like the Alesis QS8.1?

[OpenDoerr]

Before I bought my Korg SGProX, I had narrowed my choices to the Roland RD600, SGProX and the Alesis QS8.

When I did my research online, the specs of the QS8 really had me really interested. It does quite a few things and the price was great. The only way I was able to really decide was to go to a store that had all three on display so I could audition them next to each other.

The Alesis uses a Fatar board and so the action was a bit chunky. Some folks really like that, I didn't. Also, the pianos were a little metallic sounding. They cut through a mix pretty well, but they were just too thin for my taste. Also, for live work, the small screen makes things awkward at times. The Alesis does alot of things pretty well, it just doesn't do them as well as other boards.

The Roland was the opposite end of the spectrum. It had very heavy action. More like a Steinway. The sounds are also more Steinway-ish with a duller woody quality. Nice for your living room, not so good for the next gig at 12th and Porter. Also, it didn't have as much in the controller area for me. I wanted a board that could be used in a larger rig. The RD600 was too specialized.

In short, the Alesis had too much, the Roland had too little. The Korg was just right. The pianos do have that 'Korg' taste to them, but it's minimal and the enhanced sound really helps it in a live room.

Try to audition them yourself though to be sure.

OD

[This message has been edited by OpenDoerr (edited 03-09-2001).]

[DrowZ2]

Hi,

I've had my Kurzweil PC88 for five years so far, gigging weekly and it hadn't have any problem so far.

I only dismantled it once to add some antivibratory cushions to bottom cover, a little noisy (vibrating) in my home studio.

I've tried the action on the Roland XV, and I prefer the one in the PC88. It's about how you use them, and how you feel. No general solution there.

Yes italian Fatar controller is inside PC88, but it feels harder than in Fatar controller. It seems heavier counterweights have been used for the Kurzweil controller.

About the big chords, it's important to tweak the velocity response curve to fit your playing style. I think if you set this parameter well there is no room for anemic sound in any controller.

About the sound, well, there is no good piano in any controller. PC88 sounds nice, Roland sounds SoundCanvish, Korg..well..they never learned how to craft a decent piano in years (I'm a Korg fan though, with a ton of Korg keybs). Organs in PC88 are bad, as they are bad in every controller. Of course you can work with it, as I do. Not for a Jimmy Smith contest. Better get a small module with a good B3 sound.

Regards,
DrowZ

[loopychoon]

Hey guys,
Flipski went to London and checked some stuff.
He likes the Technics SP50 for overall quality of sound.
What about options in relation to heavier quality key response as close as possible to a Steinway piano?

The Yamaha P200 and the kurzweil PC88 sound promising.. (although he wonders how the P200 compares for portability with the Fender Rhodes piano he's been lumbering about with for the last five years!)
Oh, and if you're wondering why I'm typing this and not him it's because he's a lazy ***** , the old "You'll be quicker" chestnut!!

Cheers
loop

[This message has been edited by loopychoon (edited 03-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by loopychoon (edited 03-11-2001).]

[OpenDoerr]

Technics has never really been a Pro Keyboard manufacturer. They're more into the Personal Home Keyboard market. Kind of the modern day version of those old electric organs they used to sell in malls.

I haven't tried or even seen the Technic SP50, so I can't comment on it. Perhaps this is their first attempt to enter the pro market. If so, I'll have to take a look.

In regards to DrowZ's comments. I've been lusting after the Kurz K2xxx seriers for quite a while and have always been impressed with their boards so I don't want to sound anti-Kurzweil. The PC88MX and the new PC2 controller they have are both terrific boards with plenty of options.

OD

[OpenDoerr]

Just to complicate your decision for you, here's something else Roland has up their sleeve. This board looks pretty hot. It's got just enough of everything and not too much of anything.
http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse01/Content/Roland/PR/RD-700.html

OD

[RodS]

If you're thinking about going for the pc88 (I own the pc88mx) check out the pc2x. If I remember they dropped the prices recently. It's a much superior instrument. Don't expect to get the sound engine of a k series of the PC88. I own a k2000r (which I love) and I think the pc88 sounds good, but it's very limited soundwise. But I like it as controller. I use it to drive the k2000r and an ESi-32. I like the action on it a lot too. But it's one heavy sucker though.

I wanted to second the vote for the Yamaha p80 or s80. There're the closest to the real thing that I've come across. The hammer action is very nice.

Both have different hammer actions, BTW. The P80 is closer to a piano (keys get lighter with the treble notes.

Anyone know how the Yamaha P80,the Roland XV88 and Technics SP30 and SP50 compare?

They don't. They are very different.

S80... It has a full GM set ...

It is NOT GM compatible. Only with the XG plug in card.

Does anyone like the Alesis QS8.1?

I own a QS6, and to be honest you, I think the qs8 has lost ground since it was introduced. The s80 is a bit more expensive but it is superior in most aspects. I'm personally finding the qs sounds a bit stale this days. I use mostly the synth type sounds and the sounds from the vintage synths qcard nowadays. I own a cs6x (same synth engine) and the sounds rock.

But you wanted a controller... Your best bet is still the FATAR so your not paying for sounds you don't need.

Rod

[DrowZ2]

Hi,

Yes Fatar is a good choice, I suggested the PC88 (now PC2x)only due the piano sound is decent on it. Dunno how big is the difference in $ though.

It's nice to have a couple of sounds in the controller. Naturally, isn't a synthesizer. Can't tweak anything, but sometimes you get invited to party and don't want to set a zillion things up just to play a song.

I do have a K2000 also, and the piano in the K2k is by far less useable than the PC88 one. Except if you have the 4mb piano module.

PC88 piano can be checked in 'All in love is fair', Back Street Boys.

Regards,
DrowZ

[RodS]

Dunno how big is the difference in $ though.

Pretty big, I think. I think the FATAR controller goes for around $ 500. The end of stock of the pc88mx is still around $1300-1400.

It's nice to have a couple of sounds in the controller... and don't want to set a zillion things up just to play a song.

I agree with this. I think the pc88mx has a decent set of 'bread and butter' sounds to cover any occasion. The pc88, without the VGM board, falls a bit short in terms of extra sounds (all of them very good, though)

I do have a K2000 also, and the piano in the K2k is by far less useable than the PC88 one.

Agree 100%! I don't even bother with any of the pianos in the k2000

I think the bottom line is how much you wanna spend.

Rod

[tomg01]

If your not bent on having 88 keys I would check out the Kurzweil sp76. Great gigging stage piano for the money. They have a 88 key version but the 76 is lighter but exactly the same otherwise.

try this: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1437261782

Good Luck!

[rfh]

How interesting. I bought my K2000 because of the piano! I enjoy playing that sound more than the PC88 piano. (I admit I have tweaked the K2000 piano a bit.)

As already mentioned, it's a matter of personal taste, so you'll need to try them out for yourself.

[loopychoon]

Well it's been a long time coming but finally after checking many of the options named in this thread the keyboard that was purchased was the Technics SP50 primarily for its piano sounds, but portability was also a key factor.
As it turns out some other presets are OK like the harpsicord for instance sounds passable for a real one and some organ presets are pretty usable too.

Thanks for all the feedback it really did help to put the range of different choices into perspective.

The keyboard is now happily a regular fixture in the live line up and great for practice too.. money well spent!

Cheers
loop

[This message has been edited by loopychoon (edited 08-22-2001).]

[Sugarbaker]

Hi, All the notes previous to mine are correct. everything is based on personal opinion. The xv88 is a great board, but it is heavy and in my opinion the stock sounds are not as clean or nice as the could be. However, it does take the Roland JV and SRX expansion cards which give you a large variety of sound. As far as the action goes, Roland uses a hammer action that is graded, like a real piano. THis is great if you are only playing piano, but is not very realistic for B3 sounds etc. Yamaha indeed has a great action. My favorite of all the boards. The s80 is a versatale synth, with realistic action, but the sounds are a bit debatable. The new motif workstation has the best action I have ever played. I personally own a Kurzweil k2600xs, and if I could do one thing to make it a better board, I would put the Motif action in it. That brings me to Kurzweil. Try the PC2x. It is the newest version of the PC88. It has a completely new sound set and is very easy to learn. The KB3 oregon emulator is fantastic because it gives you access to live drawbars. In addition, it arguably has the most expressive, realistic piano sound currently on the market.
Fatar is a company that mainly makes controllers. They do not have any built in sounds. You would need to have another source such as a module, or another synth to make use of a fatar controller. Do not fear though, Fatar manufacures the keys and action for many of the top brands, including Kurzweil. Hope this helps in your decision.