Which synth?

[Toni Ahvenianen]

Hi everybody, glad to have forum like this.

My problem is that I've saved enough money to buy some hardware synth, but I'm not sure which one to buy. I'm doing somekind of drums and bass stuff.

The synths I've been looking are:
Novation Supernova
Roland JP-8080
Access Virus B
Korg MS-2000R
Micro Modular
Nord Lead II

Supernova, JP, Lead and Virus cost all about same. Micro Modular and MS-2000R are less expensive.

I've hoped that someone of you guys have been testing these and could give an information about differences. And please, I'm tired of that fatness-competition hype. I'm sure there are many more things to consider with these synths.

I would also like hear any comments about hardware synths vs. software ones (like Generator, Vaz modular and stuff like that). And please, answer if you tested the both hardware and software, because it dont do to justice if you are hypeing the possiabilities. I've found myself that many software synths are pain in the ass to use musically. Allthought I must admit that I just tested the Propellerheads reason demo and it made me wondering if I should ever buy any real synth at all?

Ok, thanks in advance.
Toni.

[Beethovn62]

Hi--
There sure are plenty of great software synths out there, but there are plenty of great hardware synths as well. If you need it for playing out or gigging, then the software synths aren't really a good option, in my opinion, in less you intend to lug your computer out to the gig, though I have seen it done before.
However, for everything else, a software synth can be great-- I just recently started messing around with Propellerhead's ReBirth...download the demo, and don't be intimidated when you first open it. There's a ton of knobs, buttons and toggles to tweak, and at first, I was thoroughly confused, but after spending a little time with it-- roughly 20 minutes or so, it makes a lot of sense. Anyway, that's just my two cents...don't let me sway you to either side, I'm just presenting what I know about either side.

[kcrusher]

SUPERNOVA! Seriously - this piece rocks. I've compared it against all those other pieces, too, in both studio and live applications and it is, by far, the best sounding, most versatile and most tweakable synth I've heard. Unless you're looking for a specific feature that one of the other synths have, you can't go wrong with the 'Nova.

[The Almighty]

Would you please check out the Korg Z1, if you want. Well that's my synth and I wouldn't trade it for one of those $3000 Waldorfs. Before this synth I had the Nord Lead 2, which I will buy again some day, but I sent it back and bought the Z1. The funny thing is that when I first got the Z1 I didn't like how it looked (as if that matters). I leaned it up against the wall and I didn't like it's shape. Later on I developed a lust fixation with it. One thing I really like about the Z1 is that the effects are multi-timbral so if you have a multi-set with like 5 or 6 different sounds, they don't all have to have the same reverb or chorus or exciter or distotion or... And there's KNOBS! And a cool XY pad. Awesome organs and everything else you can think of.

Umm, I should probably mention that there are absolutley NO accoustic piano sounds - tons of EPs though. It's like a polyphonic Prophesy! Go to Japan right now and you can get one for $600US!!! Can you pick me up one too?

[Toni Ahvenianen]

Thanks for replies. I don't know yet what to say about Korg Z1, but I will do some research. Supernova sounds good too, but I haven't heard any RAW material from it. Just bunch of dance****. As it comes to pads, strings and stuff like that I dont really care about them. What I'm looking for is hard 16-step sequencer overdriven sounds and bizarre analogue bleeps and klangsounds (if you know kraftwerk). (ok, it would be nice to have everything, since i don't have money to buy these things everyday)
I think that nord (micro/)modular could be good for analogue discover, but I've heard that it lacks in moog-style bass.
Best raw material that I've heard has come from virus. Supernova seems to do all kind of things more than virus, but I hate that dance****, what I've heard of it.
So Kcrusher, could you tell me something about the differences of these two (supernova & virus) synths?
By the way, I tested the Native Instruments Reaktor and found that the one of the ready made synths (Uranus) had very similar (a clone) design that virus has. It's driving me nuts, because it just got harder to made decision what synth to buy or buy anything at all...? http://www.audioforums.com/forums/frown.gif

by the way, thanks for helping me out!

[kcrusher]

I would say if you're looking for those 'klangy, overdriven' sounds, Reaktor would be an excellent bet. If I had know that softsynths were a possibility, I definitely would have mentioned Reaktor...

[Toni Ahvenianen]

Yes, reaktor is very good, but as many software synthesizer, it lacks musically. Like I have to close other audioprograms, to make something with reaktor. I think that sucks a little bit. It's much more musical to tweek reaktor both with the already present tracks and compose realtime.
I've been considering an extensive midicontroller with reaktor, but I would like to solve this problem with playing other tracks sametime. If I would by let's say something like Delta 1010 with 10 ins/out. Could I use reaktor with other software by assigning other outputs to reaktor and other to for example logic audio? What about latency problems? And do they run in sync (midi data from logic audio to reaktor with midicontroller)?
hmm... so many questions... Hope I find some answers. http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[THOUGHTS RECYCLER]

Toni I own the cs6x,and i tell you if you are dont faint heart,and know how to design the sound you want this synth has all the raw material u need to get those kraftwerk blips and klagns.I make electro industrial like skinny puppy and I tell u i love this monster.4 osc per voice!

[DJ Taos]

The Super Nova is great if you can afford it. I totally recomend that synth. If you can't afford it Get a Cs6x with the Anolog Plug in Boards its a great combination. The Cs6x is very powerfull if you don't mind spending the time programing. I have been very Happy with my Cs6x. Its alot easyer to Program then my older digital synths too but not as easy as my Juno 106.

To make Drum and Bass beats I'd look into a Sampler along with a program called Recycle by stienberg. Synths wont do D&B beats like you hear on your favorite record. but a Sytnh can do the rest. The Korg MS2000 is a great synth as well but probly wont help much with Drum and bass. Its a little more suited for Trance or Acid.
I personaly like to stay away from Software synth because they slow my machine down with leaves me with a computer that can't sequence or run my samples and record for me. its a bad trade off for me, this probly wont be a problem when this DAW that I built is finaly working.
anyways feel free toE-mail me with questions as I love talking about synths.

Taos www.djtaos.cjb.net (http://www.djtaos.cjb.net)


P.s. mmmmmmm skinny puppy...yummm: )

[THOUGHTS RECYCLER]

Taos is right;Nothing like a good hardware controller synth. I guess you like industrial Taos.

[DJ Taos]

Well yas, I used to be in an Industrial band and used to goto all the Industrial Bands when they came through town in the late 80s early 90s. I saw Revolting Cocks a few times and Front 242 and I saw TKK alsot and SKinny Puppy anytime I could, Saw Pigface a few times hmm so many of these bands, I can't remember all of them. But I make Trible/Dub house now.

Dj Taos www.euphoriachicago.com/djtaos (http://www.euphoriachicago.com/djtaos)

[kcrusher]

Toni - I use Reaktor with Logic on a G3/350 in realtime, with fx and other audio tracks and midi tracks all going simultaneously. I can edit Reaktor as everything else is playing, no problem.

What kind of system are you running?

[THOUGHTS RECYCLER]

SO YOU WERE G FORCE!...Thats coooooool. i then listened to you industrial stuff heh heh.I saw skinny,front242,ministry,kmfdm,frontline assembly,nitzer ebb,and a hundred more bands.

[RipGroover]

If you like getting into the nitty-gritty of sound creation and yearn for originality, you can't go past a Nord Micro-Modular (well you could get the big Nord Modular). As it's modular synthesis rather than fixed architecture, the possibilities are simply endless, except where you need heaps of polyphony or heaps of hardware knobs to tweak (but you can get a seperate midi controller unit for that if you like). I've had a Micro for about fifteen months now, and it still blows me away. I produce music that tends to lie somewhere in the spectrum between psychedelic trance and drum and bass - flipped-out alien sounds and phat, phunky **** (sorry, have to use 'ph').
I don't know what the person above who suggested the Modular couldn't manage fat bass was taking about; it really depends on the level of understanding of the user - if you know how to construct a fat-sounding synthesizer you'll get a fat-sounding synthesizer (I do and I do). It's good to experiment a bit and to do a little research into modular synthesis techniques in order to get a good grip on the whole concept, but once you do, there's little if anything else that can match it for versitility.

[RipGroover]

LOL! You can't say s**t here? Must be an American site! :-D

[RipGroover]

Let's see what else I can't say:

**** **** dick fart goddamn bitch ass arse ******* arsehole **** turd bugger bastard

[Lee David]

Just a thought....
If you were not planning on taking your synth out on the road, you could spend your money on another PC which would be a dedicated system to run softsynths, and buy a decent motherboard with controllers for all that realtime tweaking. You would then have greater scope for expandibility and could add more softsynths or modules as and when you could afford it.
My setup (or bits of it, anyway)...
PC1 Dedicated to VST/Soundforge
PC2 Dedicated softsynth/burner duties
Atari ST (just in case!)
Roland JV50
Juno 106
SBLive (for soundfont support)and stacks of soundfonts pulled from the net (there are thousands of great fonts out there for free!)
Reaktor
E-Type
Pro-5
ReBirth
Soon to arrive.. Korg PolySix and Korg Poly800 - bargains from eBay

A real mixture of Hard/soft synths and samples - works fine for me! http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

Good luck!


[This message has been edited by Lee David (edited 12-07-2000).]

[Har]

Wow...a PolySix!! I used to LOVE my old PolySix <sigh>...but then I had the MIDI retrofit installed and it never was the same.... http://www.audioforums.com/forums/frown.gif

[Youth In Asia]

The moderator Sonic Valley can say words like sh!t, sh!tty, bullsh!t, here. When "americans" like me type the word **** or or **** it comes out like this. But he's Canadian (I think). Cool guy, too.

[andrewsc]

I'm here to mention the Korg Z1 again, I just got one recently and can't imagine a better synth. At first I was primarily interested in it for all the realtime controllers (gobs of knobs and the touch pad especially) for tweaking the virtual analog sounds, but after playing around with it, I'm blown away by how cool and convincing the physical modelling instruments are. What other synth lets you tweak the amount of rosin on the bow, finger position, string dispersion, bow pressure - basically anything - and it sounds very very realistic. Compared to my Wavestation, the high end sheen is way clearer and more defined. Also, the bass is very fat because of a sub oscillator, and with FX like the bit reduction decimator on the X axis of the pad and wah on the Y axis, you can get sounds that really snort, spit, growl and vomit all over you (anywhere from super clean to filthy - your choice). The touchpad alone is reason enough to get this synth. Hybrid physical model-analog sounds are great. I personally get sick of analog sounds that are too blippy and zappy so the tweaked hybrids are just what I want. You can play a realistically overblown panpipe or baritone sax - imagine using a wind controller to articulate several variables at the same time.. After checking out some of the other synths that one might think could approach the Z1, (like the rackmount Roland JP-8080 thing, waldorf $ynth$, clavia, and others) I'm convinced the Z1 does way more. The architecture is very deep. These other virtual analog synths do 1/3 of what the Z1 does for twice the money and I doubt that they do it better. This synth absolutely rocks, the pads are amazing too, better than the Wavestation. I've barely played the Supernova, but I doubt you could get pads like those of the Z1 out of it. It sounded kind of harsh to me. Try one of these before you buy anything else.
You can get one used on Ebay for $800 - $1000 or so. Hope you like it!

[andrewsc]

Also, I would buy a virus before a supernova. The new rack version claims to do 80 FX at once. The virus sounds far more unique than the supernova in my book. Very aggressive sounds too, some like rubbing a 303 balloon and tweaking that! Finally synths are getting cool. You may not like goa trance, but one artist you could Napsterize to hear a virus workout is the artist "Double Dragon". He uses the virus alot, try finding the songs, 'deep thought', 'hairy liquid' or 'black ark something". Lots of drum and bass producers love it too as you probably know.

[Toni Ahvenianen]

Woah! The topic went fire while I was gone. First of all:
Kcrusher: I'm running Celeron 466 with Sblaster (yeah I know, dont mention (sucks)). Should I have some card with multiple outs/ins with Asio drivers to play with many audioprogs at same time? Or does mac funtion some way different than pc's

David: How do you sync two pc's? Midi, ethernet cards, what? Seems kind of fun option, but I'm afraid it's out of my budjet. Or I can spend everythin to new pc and get nothing new music gear... http://www.audioforums.com/forums/frown.gif

And andrewsc:
Sorry, I havent checked the Z1 yet, but it seems to be worth of checking, because you are pretty serious with that http://www.audioforums.com/forums/wink.gif

So, the options now are:

Virus
Seems to me more aggressive and unique than Supernova (or I have just heard the wrong samples). But is it good just making these sounds? to out it other way; is it restricked (sorry for my english) to these sounds only.

Supernova
The 'make-everything workhorse'. Hard to say havent heard anything as raw (or aggressive) as virus. Good choice still, I believe.

Micro Modular.
Reaktor seems to modular better. More modules ar least. Micro doesnt have any delays or reverbs http://www.audioforums.com/forums/frown.gif and in practise it is monophonic (so I've heard).

The there is buy midicontroller and better soundcard:
10control looks nice and midiman delta 1010, but I don't know about this enough yet. Have to do more researh. Hope you'll help.

Huh huh... complicated. I've seen some dreams lately about choices fighting against other!!! Maybe I shouldn't take this too seriously http://www.audioforums.com/forums/wink.gif

Toni A.

[The Almighty]

andrewsc and I work for Korg. That's why we're so enthusiastic about the Z1 - we're trying to get the Z1's sold so that we can discontinue that model and release the awesome Mach1. Look for it in March. This is supposed to be a secret so andrewsc and I would appreciate if it didn't leave this forum.

[andrewsc]

One other difference that's probably worth noting is that a synth like the virus and some others have audio input capability whereas the Z1 and others don't. Same thing with vocoding. Depending on what you want to do, getting a crazy FX processor and a punchy vocoder in the synth could offer lots of additional functionality beyond just a solo instrument output. I think the synths you are considering are all pretty different from each other. There are also some price differences. Try to play as many as you can and if you buy one from a local store maybe you can return it if you don't like it, or get it off ebay and sell again - though shipping a big synth in the mail once requires a huge enough box to make that idea less appealing.

[JohnnyF]

Just got the MS-2000R and I don't think it quite stands up to the Access or Novation gear in terms of sheer biting sound quality but it's a good repro based on the MS-20 analogue modelling synth and is a huge heap of fun to mess around with (vocoder and audio ins as well). And there's nothing you can't do with something like Sound Forge or Wavelab to bring the MS-2000's sounds right out of their shell.

And no, I don't work for Korg http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[T. Alan Smith]

If I were in your shoes, I would look at taking the $$$ it will cost of purchasing a nice hardware synth and seriously consider a dedcated PC/software solution, like Reason for instance.
If I were starting over, that's what I would do. Especially considering the type of music you wish to produce.

T. Alan

[euphonic]

it's like my friend Juan used to tell me "it's the preperation, my friend, the preperation". And of course in this case the 'research preperation.' I think thats a good point to try to get the whole picture working if that's what is meant. I bought a closeout G-7 farfisa synth and am really happy with it, but now I realize I need both a hardware DAW and softDAW for recording and editing to make the most of the synth workstation so I'm glad I only laid out $800 for the synth workstation portion as there is so much more to complete the equation. Does that relate?