Apogee Duet, MOTO?? Anyone have any input!

[Jasen]

Hi there again guys/gals....

I keep turning to you guys cause ya ask 100 people man ya get a 100 different responses. So I've been dealing with this new guy to buy some new gear as I've mentioned in my other posts. He says to me that the M Audio Fast track pro I'm using as my interface with my Imac is not a good move. He said if you think about it that $150 dollar piece of equipment is the last stop in my audio chain before it goes digital so if I was smart and wanting to get the most professional recordings I can I should upgrade that to a Apogee Duet or a Moto something or other. Any one have any input??? I heard the Duet you can not use with a Mac is that true? So bottom line what kind of firewire interface should I invest in to use with ProTools and my MAC???

Thanks for the help...

[robertruetz]

If it works for you, why tinker with it? I've put together small home-recording setups for VO people and have consistently used the Fast Track Pro. I use a MOTU ultralite for my home set-up, but that is because I need the extra I/O and mixing busses that the Ultralite has. Apogee makes some great stuff, and I thought it was built specifically for Macs. However, I guess I'm old-school in the "if it ain't broke" department. Are you having trouble with your current setup?

:cool:
Rob.

[Reegs]

Re the Apogee Duet: Au contraire. It is designed for, and works only with Mac via firewire. What your friend was likely referring to is Mac's recent removal of firewire ports from their MacBooks. As a result, you'll need a previous generation MacBook ( the black or white ones, not aluminum) to use it, or you'll need a MacBook Pro or Mac Pro. iMac's have firewire ports, so an Apogee Duet should work with them.

You are using Pro Tools as a DAW? That limits you to Digidesign hardware for PTLE and M-Audio hardware for PTMP. Yes, the FTP is not a true professional level device, but it is one of the few units that will run your software. And honestly, it's fine for what most people need. You won't hear a difference without good monitors, and microphone positioning and proper gain staging outweighs converter quality every time. If you are considering upgrading for the sake of higher quality and sticking with Pro Tools, I would invest in an 003 Rack ($1500) or 003 Factory ($2100). The preamps and converters on these units are very good. If it still does not meet your standards, there are after-market mods done by third parties that improve the clock and converter quality.

And it's still $10,000 cheaper than an HD system :)


If you are considering moving to another recording platform, such as Logic, DP, or Cubase/Nuendo, you can use MOTU or Apogee. I would go straight for an RME Fireface.

Hope this helps,
Reegs

[Jasen]

Hey Reegs...
Thanks for responding! But woooohhh your talking to an Actor not an Engineer. I kinda get what your saying but would ya mind breaking it down for me. Yes I am using an IMAC with Pro-Tools that's probably not going to change as it took me long enough to figure that out. When I decided to upgrade my mic, and mic pre the guy I was dealing with told me that I was crazy to not upgrade the Fast track pro. He said that was the last piece of equipment my audio went through before the digital conversion into pro-tools and that my recording was only as strong as the weakest link. Meaning why would ya have a 1,000 dollar mic and 2,000 dollar pre and the computer and all that and then use a $150.00 dollar interface. So he said I should upgrade to something of better quality and I just don't know which one I can get that will work with my Imac and Pro-tools. The reason for the upgrades to the Mic the Pre & Interface etc is because the stuff i'm sending out to my Agent needs to be Broadcast quality so I wanna make sure I'm working with the best stuff I can.

Thanks for any advice!

[robertruetz]

Umm... Broadcast quality is FAAAAAR from the best, IMHO. What you have will be more than enough for "broadcast quality." If you are using the Fast Track and Pro-Tools, then you have Pro-Tools M-Powered, which will ONLY work with M-Audio interfaces. Pro-Tools is hardware-dependent. So, unless you upgrade to the Digi interfaces (like the 003 that Reegs mentioned, or even a used 002 off of Flea-Bay--Although you don't need the pre-amps), you're stuck with M-Audio products. The Apogee Duet will not work with Pro-Tools in any flavor, so unless you are switching to Logic or Garageband, that is out.

The logic of your "guy" seems a little flawed. While there is some truth to the "you get what you pay for" cliche, it isn't always true for every situation. You're bypassing the M-Audio pre-amps, which would be one of the only weak points of the FTP. The DACs are pretty solid for the money. You can look into upgrading your M-Audio interface, but all that will do for you is add Inputs/Outputs, which you don't seem to need.

Again, my question would be, are you NOT getting the quality you want out of your current setup?

Rob
:cool:

[robertruetz]

If you are serious about VO as a career, you'd do better to spend money expanding your capabilities. Especially in the connectivity arena. Look into adding phone-patching or ISDN to your setup. This will open you up to a wider variety of jobs across the globe. Since you're already using Pro-Tools, look into Source Connect, which is a VST plug-in replacement for ISDN that more and more studios are using. I think you'll see a better return on your investment if you are more accessible to potential clients.

Just my $0.02. Take it or leave it.

Rob
:cool:

[oretez]

While you don't always get what you pay for you seldom get 'more' then you pay for

That said in many ways the A/D convertor is the least, not most important part of the audio chain. One of the reasons for justifying something like Apogee is either that 'cache' will generate revenue (not extremely likely in today's market) or you need the apogee clock to be distributed among multiple devices for multitrack recording.

And if you don't understand what that means it is unlikely that, at this moment, you'd benefit from the Apogee

But other information you've present means that your A/D decision has already been made: M Audio and PT

Without building from scratch you have no other option (from info you've stated)

It is not specific hardware I'd tend to recommend (generally speaking I think RME is an excellent choice for project studios and I have fairly large installed base of MOTU gear and am generally speaking pretty OK with it) but particularly for VO work there is nothing the matter with it

If you are losing a client over the A/D, as a sole proprietor with no dedicated sales force, you are unlikely to retain a functional relationship them in any case (based on more then 30 yr. experience in pro audio work) . . . Your M Audio device is entry level, but that's really OK when one is 'entry' level . . . With experience you will begin to understand the variables and be able to make considered choices. One of the first ones would be to look at motivation of 'guy' recommending you sink significant portion of budget into 'branded' gear that can't be recouped readily. If your tax structure is such that depreciation of priced gear helps your bottom line that is one thing . . . If, to remain afloat, your depreciated cost of gear can not exceed 15% of annual revenue, that impacts gear decisions differently.

You need hardware that crosses minimum threshold for your projected tasks, while it's doubtful I'd ever recommend entry level PT for entry level VO work, your described hardware choices cross that threshold . . . Don't second guess spend any additional budget on things that directly improve work flow

[Jasen]

Everyone I really appreciate all the help!
So as you know from previous discussions. I am using Pro-Tools Mpowered and a Mac. I've got the New Microphone and Pre now thanks to everyones advice. The last thing I want to upgrade is the Audio Interface. So I've heard everyone loud and clear. I just want to make sure I'm on the right path. Being that I'm using Pro-Tools I am stuck with using MAudio or Digidesign for an Interface??? Meaning that the apogee duet or the Motu etc are not options for me unless I wanted to change my recording software??? Are those statements correct?? If so then instead of using my M-Audio fast track pro what would you professionals suggest I buy in order to upgrade my interface? The Mbox2Pro or the Digi Rack 003 or Is there something else I'm missing?

Please if anyone could let me know this final bit of information I could just go buy something already...(LOL)

Thanks

[robertruetz]

You've got about 3 threads all asking the same questions... It's hard for people to keep up with everything that's been said. Make sure you check all of them for everyone's advice.

Just FYI, Welcome to the forums. There are some great people in here with a lot of experience and good advice. And some jokers like me too.

Rob
:cool:

[Jasen]

Hey Rob,

I know I was just noticing that myself, My mind is like spinning
trying to keep track of what everyone says and what I should go buy!
I wish there was some easier way, but all the people in here have been
great.

Thanks
J

[robertruetz]

Perhaps one of the mods can combine your threads into one? I'm not sure. But just slow down and make sure you understand everyone's advice before you go gear-crazy. It's certainly not easy to be sure, especially when you're talking about a lot of money. And your livelihood.

Rob
:cool:

[Jasen]

Rob,
No it's definately not easy. You seem to have a pretty good handle on all of this, and I have read and re-read everything everyone has had to say, plus a million things on other forums. So tell me your honest opinion.
I'm sticking with my Mac and pro-tools and my sennheiser 416 mic and of course my whisper room. So those are the constants. I may consider the TLM 103 but I think I'll rent one first to compare against my sen. As far as the two things I really wanna pick out and buy are my pre and interface. So based on everyones thoughts the interface I'm going to go with is the digi 003rack. Seems like the handful of people I've been speaking to say that's a great upgrade from the Fast track pro. When it comes down to the pre I'm pretty sure I want a all in one unit. So if I travel that route it seems that there are a few that I should consider. The Avalon 737, The Pendulum Quartet, The ApI 7600 and the Universal Audio 2-610 or the 6176. Following that chain tell me honestly what you think and what mic pre you would go for.
J

[robertruetz]

Why do you need both a new pre and the digi 003? The pres built into the 003 should be more than adequate for your application. If you are insistent on just spending money for the heck of it, then someone else will have to give you a pre recommendation. I still think this whole thing is overkill.

You STILL haven't explained why you feel the need to do any of these upgrades. You keep asking for someone to just tell you what to buy. Please explain what you're trying to accomplish. Given the current economic state and the GLUT of male voice-talent out on the market, I think there are wiser ways to spend money.

This is my third mention of this, and I'll keep trying until I get a response, but do you have phone-patching or ISDN capabilities? In my opinion, this would be a better way to spend money, if growing your business is the goal.

Rob
:cool:

[Jasen]

Hey Rob,

I want you to know I really appreciate everything you are telling me. I have ISDN and Source Connect already, when I originally bought my equipment I was working with a local audio dealer and what he sold me was pretty entry level equipment. I wish I had known more about this stuff then as I probably would of just bought the higher end gear. The reason for my upgrades are a couple reasons. First I'm not getting that big rich sound I'm looking for. Some have told me it's mic selection but I have a couple of high end mics and I'm still not getting that sound I'm looking for, which I know I can achieve because I have recorded in some studios in NY and I've heard that sound. So when I sought out professional help I was told I should consider upgrading my gear. I am auditioning for National gigs and going up against some of the top talent in the US who all seem to be achieving that sound I'm searching for. Hence my questions and posts. After a lot of research I decided that my Mic the sennheiser 416 I love, and I believe the Avalon 737 is a great mic pre for me and will give me that big rich sound I'm looking for. As far as upgrading the interface, I was told that my M-Audio fast track pro is a low end interface and I would get a better quality in my recordings if I made a switch to a MBox2 or 2Pro or digi rack. From what I've been figuring out the digi rack would probably be overkill for me but the Mbox2 or 2pro would be a significant upgrade in the quality of the components. Fortunately the guy I deal with for equipment now has told me that whatever I buy if I don't like it I can always send it back and try something else, but I'd like to not have to do that and hopefully with all you guys professional advice and research I'll buy the right stuff this time around and it will be over and done with. I'm not in the business to become a Engineer, I'm an Actor who's just trying to produce a quality sound for my auditions.

Let me know your thoughts
Thanks
J

[robertruetz]

Thanks, that's all I wanted. You're way ahead of the game then. Absolutely, upgrade your gear. I'm not sure that I completely buy into the hype, but the STANDARD VO mic is typically the Neumann U87. A lot of big-name people swear by it. It's pretty expensive, but I would wager that 9/10 of your competitors are using it. From my experience, it would be the gold-standard for straight VO.

Other people can point you towards a good pre to match with it. I think someone even mentioned a channel strip--this might be the route to go, since it will incorporate compression and other desirable processing options. There are some amazing replications of some of the old SSL consoles channel strips out there.

Good luck to you. Hopefully you can find the sound you're looking for. This is, however, every audio guy's eternal quest.

BTW, in your line of work, it wouldn't hurt to know the nuts and bolts of your equipment. At least the basics. I always like to say, "know your craft." To do that, to some extent, you need to have a grasp of how all the tools work.

Rob
:cool:

[Jasen]

Rob,

Thanks...I've used the neuman u87 and I was not a big fan of it, a bit to thin for my sound. I do love my sennheiser though. As far as the channel strip that is the route I'm traveling and I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with the Avalon 737. A couple people have told me that I may want to consider the Manly Vox Box or the Pendulum Quantum, but it seems like I'd have to go about another 1,500 to get into those and I'm not sure if i'll achieve any better sound. Any opinion there? As far as the interface would you say the Mbox2 or 2 pro would suffice my upgrade needs? Or do you think I'd get better with the digi rack. From what I've been told the components inside the Mbox2 and digi rack are pretty much the same the only thing I would achieve by getting the rack is more inputs!

And P.S. I this has been a total education and I'll walk away from this with a really good understanding of all my gear!

Thanks
J

[robertruetz]

I have no experience with any of the strips you've mentioned. The Avalon seems to be a good bang-for-buck unit. The components look sound, and the specs are good too.

If you don't need the extra inputs, I'd go with an MBox of some flavor. Again, I don't have any personal hands-on with any of these units, so I'm going on specs and what reading I can find online. Perhaps someone with some real-world experience can chime in.

Rob
:cool: