What amp for PC application?

[zzephyr27]

This is all to be ran from my computer. I want to go the path of bookshelf speakers/amp instead of just simple computer speakers.

I'm fairly sure I'll be buying a Dayton SUB-100 HT Series 10" 125 Watt Powered Subwoofer and Infinity P162 speakers (unless someone recommends differently.)

I'm not sure of what amp. I was going to get on of those T-Amps as I once got recommended, but I'm not sure if it's the best option considering I have an m-audio audiophile 2496 card into a mixer to my speakers. The mixer has all kinds of outputs..I don't need to do just the 1/8th stereo input the t amp has, which suits most computer's outputs. I can do rca out..so now I'm looking at and trying to compare quite a few amps. If someone could tell me the disadvantages of the cheaper ones, and the advantages of the higher end ones, that'd be great. Or also, if any of them would not suit my application.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=248-460
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-958
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=248-480
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=248-482
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-649

Thanks in advance for the help.

[sabianq]

honestly,
any amplifier that is capable of 120-160 watts per cahnnel @ 8 ohms will work great for the speakers you are interested in.

if you don't mind me asking, what is your amplifier budget?

[zzephyr27]

Well I'll spend whatever it takes for what's best or best value.
If the cheapest would get the job done, it seems I might as well just go for that. What advantages would spending more get me? Which would recommend out of those?
I'd probably assume not spend TOO much on the amp, but I could..I was going to get the T-amp, because I got that recommended to me from somewhere else..but what's best for me?

[zzephyr27]

If anyone can help me choose an amp/receiver that would be greatly appreciated. I plan to run a Dayton sub and some bookshelf speakers. Please help me get situated
thanks

[GZsound]

Alesis makes a good reference amplifier.

Samson makes a series of studio monitor amplifiers.

ART makes a couple single rack space reference amplifiers.

Crown makes a couple of studio reference amplifiers.

Go to www.sweetwater.com and check out reference amplifiers, I believe they carry all the brands listed.

I would stay away from "karoake" type power amplifiers like the Pyle, American Audio..etc.

You want a true reference amp to drive your monitors.

[zzephyr27]

Those are quite expensive.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RA150/ Even this one pushes my range. Is this really necessary for what I'm trying to do?

Maybe if I just describe the clueless situation I'm in, someone can set me straight:
I'm getting these: http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primus-Single-bookshelf-speaker/dp/B000LK8U9M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=A228GNTXW0TH0L&s=electronics&qid=1238797962&sr=1-1
and this: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-633
I want the source to be my computer (I have various outputs, I have a mixer and an audiophile 2496) and/or an iPod. I just need to find the amp or "reference amp" or whatever it is that I need to put this all together.
Also if someone could explain how everything would be set up such as connections
sorry, I'm inexperienced
thanks

[Togglehead]

Will the signal going out of your PC from either mp3's or your iPod be a stereo signal? Or are you splitting the audio into 3 channels (left, right, sub) on the PC...then out through the outs of your 2496?

I'm assuming not...and in that case, you need some type of 2.1 Home Audio Amplifier. like this: http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=369

Now...that sub youre buying looks like its NOT passive...and will be amping itself....so maybe my link is to the wrong product. Does that sub drive speakers too?

[zzephyr27]

I guess stereo. I'm so inexperienced with stuff like this I'm not even sure. For my comp as the source, I could probably do whatever..as I've got the 2496 going into a mixer..I'm sure I could use different methods of input..
but as for the ipod situation, idk how you'd do that. so I suppose keep it basic.

and about the sub stuff, i don't even know. I don't know how this stuff needs to be hooked up or what can work in conjunction with what.

I'm sorry for such vague questioning..I feel like an idiot about this stuff.

just to set me straight, if I went with something like this: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-958
..would that not be able to run to the sub and bookshelves?

[kope]

Sorry for interruption, but is important what "you will do" not what you want.

[Togglehead]

I guess stereo. I'm so inexperienced with stuff like this I'm not even sure. For my comp as the source, I could probably do whatever..as I've got the 2496 going into a mixer..I'm sure I could use different methods of input..
but as for the ipod situation, idk how you'd do that. so I suppose keep it basic.

and about the sub stuff, i don't even know. I don't know how this stuff needs to be hooked up or what can work in conjunction with what.

I'm sorry for such vague questioning..I feel like an idiot about this stuff.

just to set me straight, if I went with something like this: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-958
..would that not be able to run to the sub and bookshelves?

well...whether the ipod is pluggedinto the PC or the mixer...its still only going to give a stereo signal. Meaning...to make life easy...you should just get an all inclusive system. that way the amp will break out the signal to 2.1...not the pc. which would allow you to plug anything into the mixer and still get 2.1. if you let your pc do the audio splitting. anything bypassing the PC will exclude the sub.

That amp will run two channels. Your sub (linked) is NOT passive..and does NOT need to be powered. BUT...it still needs a line level SUB signal from somewhere. That amp will not deliver that. It will drive both your bookshelves though. Rendering the sub out of the loop.

My advice? Go look for a decent 2.1 sound setup system...with included amps and speakers. Get what you can afford...and be happy. Something tells me, with all the separate purchases, youre making this all way more complicated than it needs to be.

[zzephyr27]

well that amp I just linked was one of the more basic I was looking at

I've been leaning towards the audiosource amp100
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/32/4f/aab2c060ada0351e5cb60210.L.gif

if you're saying speaker wire to the sub, then to the bookshelves won't work..wont it work to use the line out of the amp into the line in of the sub?

and for the ipod situation, i never meant to be using that through my computer..I meant to just have it go into the amp, through the mixer or not.

kope, i don't know what you're saying

[zzephyr27]

I don't get why all the input I'm getting here differs from what I'm reading elsewhere.

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_large_xtra/300-633_Liv.jpg

Aside from the doubt I've got from asking here, I've been led to believe I can run speaker wire from the outputs of the amp to the inputs on the sub, and then speaker wire from the sub's outputs to the speakers in's. Is this really not the case?
Clearly that diagram of the sub shows "From Amplifier" right above "To Speakers." Is this untrue?

[Togglehead]

You are exactly correct. But is then not the sub doing all the amping? I cant read what the subwoofer says...

In theory yes...that is exactly what youd be doing. This means your SUB is doing the 2 channel to 2.1 conversion, and eliminates the need for a 2.1 amp.

Check if those out puts on the sub are line level. If they are...then any 2 channel amp that you have previously linked should be fine.

Im pretty sure our confusion came from the way you worded things...or the way i interpreted them. I was under the impression you wanted to amp everything from 1 amp.

[Togglehead]

just saw your other post.

as for iPod...i see what you mean. Just plug into the mixer with the proper cables. should be easy enough.

The signal path now SHOULD be (if those are line level outs on the sub):

Source (PC or iPod or whatever) to Mixer, to sub, to bookshelf amp, to Bookshelf speakers, to ears!

The volume should then be controlled via the mixer.

[zzephyr27]

whoooa I was totally following you and thinking this was finally resolved until the end of that post.

I thought it would be the amp (audiosource amp100 probably) sending speaker wire to the sub's inputs, and then speaker wire to the bookshelves.
I don't follow the way you mean.

In that last picture, the speaker wire inputs so High Input Level and the rca ones say Low Input Level..it looks like

Also I'd prefer not to rely on the mixer, and potentially not use it at all. It's a cheapo I have for when I used to do some simple recording in my room. I just figured if needed I can use it for different outputs..like to go into the amp (rca)

[Togglehead]

Ok...this IS confusing. I think this is whats going on here...

For all intents and purposes....lets leave out the sources for now (PC, Mixer, and iPod). You need to deliver a stereo signal to that sub...and luckily, its giving you options. From what it seems...It allows you to deliver signal to the sub that is either passive or active.

Examples:
If your setup involved a standard stereo home theater receiver...and you wanted to add a subwoofer....you could plug the HIGH OUTPUT (or speaker outs) of that receiver into the HIGH INPUT of the subwoofer. The sub would then decrypt the signal to stereo + 1 (or 2.1) and send the stereo signal back out through the HIGH LEVEL outs.

Next example...which i think is closer to what you need. If you system did not already include an amp for your speakers...you can deliver PASSIVE or LOW LEVEL signal to the sub. THe sub will still decrypt to 2.1...but then deliver a PASSIVE signal out for the speakers. That signal would run into the 2 channel amp of your choice and then out to your speakers. Could you place your amp before the sub and deliver it high level inputs this way? Sure...although not sure i can see why. I feel that would introduce the possibility for distortion in the signal. I feel its always best to leave the signal passive till the last possible step in the chain.

I assume...the sub will NOT power the bookeshelf speakers for you...as you also assumed. Hence...if you plug a passive signal into the sub...im not sure if it would deliver a high level output to the speakers....but it might. Even if it does...however...youll get better quality amping them separately most likely.

Going back to the sources...if youre trying to avoid the use of the mixer...go for it! from what i can tell...the only reason youd need the mixer, would be to insert the iPod (or add'l sources beyond the PC) into the mix. Since you said you didnt want to play the iPod through the PC though...im not really sure where youd plug it in without a mixer of sorts...

[Harmony]

I have Alesis and I would recommend that.

[Togglehead]

I have Alesis and I would recommend that.


Uhm...what? Alesis what?

All due respect...but did you even read this thread? haha

[Harmony]

Uhm...what? Alesis what?

All due respect...but did you even read this thread? haha
Sorry I think I have replied to wrong thread.... but I was suggesting amplifier made by Alesis Company

[Togglehead]

Sorry I think I have replied to wrong thread.... but I was suggesting amplifier made by Alesis Company

No problem! just dont want to add confusion. theres been enough of that already! im not the best with words. =]

[sabianq]

there is no such thing as "2 channel to 2.1 conversion"

the sub box just has an active low pass filter (active crossover) in line before the internal amplifier.
All it does it filter out all of the high frequencies from the 2 channel stereo line level signal
coming from the Mixer/Ipod/pc/whatever and sends the low frequincies to the amplifier in the subwoofer.
2.1 is a misnomer, it is not 3 channels, there is nothing to "convert",
it is just a stereo or 2 channel mix that has a low pass filter (active or passive crossover depending on the system)
applied to drive a dedicated subwoofer single channel (mono) amplifier.

same as with a 5.1 system.
5 channels and a lowpass on the summed channels for a dedicated sub "channel"

this is how you would set up the system.
from your mixer the line out would go to the line in (red and white RCA jacks) on the subwoofer.
from the subwoofer, the line out (red and white RCA jacks) from the sub box would go to the line in (red and white RCA jacks) on the amplifier.
Then the Speaker outs (speaker terminals red and black) of the amplifier would go to your speaker terminals on the back of the bookshelf speakers.

The Amplifier you listed above is probably not adequete to drive the speakers you listed above.
you should get an amplifier that can output at least 75~150 watts per channel.
any amplifier will work.
if you are on a budget, go to the thrift store and get a 20 dollar "denon receiver"
Done.

Cheers!

[Togglehead]

there is no such thing as "2 channel to 2.1 conversion"

the sub box just has an active low pass filter (active crossover) in line before the internal amplifier.
All it does it filter out all of the high frequencies from the 2 channel stereo line level signal
coming from the Mixer/Ipod/pc/whatever and sends the low frequincies to the amplifier in the subwoofer.
2.1 is a misnomer, it is not 3 channels, there is nothing to "convert",
it is just a stereo or 2 channel mix that has a low pass filter (active or passive crossover depending on the system)
applied to drive a dedicated subwoofer single channel (mono) amplifier.

same as with a 5.1 system.
5 channels and a lowpass on the summed channels for a dedicated sub "channel"

this is how you would set up the system.
from your mixer the line out would go to the line in (red and white RCA jacks) on the subwoofer.
from the subwoofer, the line out (red and white RCA jacks) from the sub box would go to the line in (red and white RCA jacks) on the amplifier.
Then the Speaker outs (speaker terminals red and black) of the amplifier would go to your speaker terminals on the back of the bookshelf speakers.

The Amplifier you listed above is probably not adequete to drive the speakers you listed above.
you should get an amplifier that can output at least 75~150 watts per channel.
any amplifier will work.
if you are on a budget, go to the thrift store and get a 20 dollar "denon receiver"
Done.

Cheers!

Well said. that is basically what i was trying to get across.

My mistake on the conversion though....i suppose i was confusing even more things. In my head that idea was there...but i didnt realize it was simply a low pass filter.

[zzephyr27]

That all make sense to me now..It makes sense that it can be wired that way..the other way made sense to me too since the sub has speaker outs, but I see how that way could be better.
But wont the sub volume and speaker volume be completely seperate? so I'll need to adjust both accordingly any time i change volume...

I need a higher wattage amplifier? is this just a high volume concern?

[Togglehead]

Wattage does not equal volume. Your speakers are designed to be run with a certain wattage for best sound quality and performance...as well as durability. Believe it or not...i've read its actually more dangerous to UNDER power your speakers...rather than over powering...and turning them down.

As for volume...it would be controlled by the source (or mixer) in this setup. PC, iPod...etc...

@sabianq
i figured out why i was confused. With a lot of 5.1 videos...they are converted for surround sound effect. I was confusing this whole concept with something else...

[zzephyr27]

if it's going source>sub>amp>speakers..i'll have to match the sub volume with the amp(speaker) volume then..correct? as the amp volume will control what's after it (speakers)

[sabianq]

if it's going source>sub>amp>speakers..i'll have to match the sub volume with the amp(speaker) volume then..correct? as the amp volume will control what's after it (speakers)

with the set up above^^^^^^

the amplifiers would be set to their optimum settings and the "source" would dictate the "volume" of the audio. once you set the volume on the amplifiers, they should stay that way.

the Source level is adjusted for overall volume.

you can calibrate your system easily with a tone/noise generator and a db meter.

assuming your "source" is the mixer, send pink noise from your mixer to the sub>amplifier.
the noise should be nominal (menaing 0db) on the analogue meter. this represents .774 volts RMS, a line level signal.

grab your db meter and measure 1 meter from the speakers and set your "volume" so that the output hits about 88~92 db.

do the same with the sub.

now your speakers are calibrated.

leave the amplifier level control knobs alone now and just use the mixers output faders to adjust the "volume"

[zzephyr27]

Sorry, but I have to hound you guys with a few more questions before finalizing this.

1. Should I consider this (http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-P1001AT-1000W-Hybrid-Amplifier/dp/B0010K6TUO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1243320322&sr=1-3) amp over the AudioSource AMP-100? The audiosource has 50w per channel at 8ohms to the Pyle's 200w. Is that something different? I noticed it says pre amp where as the AS says power amp. I want to make sure the wattage is right for the speakers.

2. http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primus-Single-bookshelf-speaker/dp/B000LK8U9M
http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Synergy-Bookshelf-Loudspeaker-Pair/dp/B000NGTKOI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1243318280&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Synergy-Bookshelf-Loudspeakers-Black/dp/B000MZE68A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1243318280&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSi200-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B0018QRO9A/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1243318288&sr=1-4
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Bookshelf-Speakers-Cherry/dp/B000V2UBSI/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1243318288&sr=1-9
Any help deciding?

3. Is 14awg speaker wire good for this?

Thanks

[zzephyr27]

Any help please? Sorry for hounding, I just really want to make sure I make the right purchases. Thanks.

[zzephyr27]

Just wanna say thanks for all the help you guys gave in this.
I ended up with Polk RTi A1 speakers, Dayton SUB-100 subwoofer, and the Audiosource AMP-100. Sounds GREAT.