Man, am I confused!

[TotallyConfused]

Ok, I am completely confused. All I want is a stable DAW system that can record 16 inputs simultaneously, doesn’t crash every time I add a plugin, will work well with the UDA-1 and offers fairly low latency so that I may monitor a track with effects (not all the time).

I currently use an Aardvark Q10 which, is a decent unit but very finicky. I think this thing works flawlessly on only 1 motherboard. I am tired of spending all of my time trying to get this unit stable.

I would like to purchase something with expandability, good converters and flexibility in regards to monitoring, routing and i/o. Is that too much to ask? I have thought about going the Standalone DAW route, but I don’t want to lose the convenience of quick waveform editing, addition of new effects and software, future upgrades.

Budget is not too tight, I am willing to spend a few $$ to accomplish my goals. I do not intend on spending $10K though, something within reason.

What I have been considering:
1. MOTU 2408 MK3 & Focusrite OctoPre or Presonus Digimax LT
2. Used Digital Mixer (WR-DA7, 01v96, DDX3216,???) and an RME 3696 card

Criteria:
1. I would like to be able to travel easily with the system
2. It would be beneficial if I could bypass the need for a mixer immediately


Anyone else have suggestions in this price/performance range? If anyone has experience with combinations of these products on a PC based system, it would be greatly appreciated to hear your experiences.

If anyone can provide some insight or direction, I will be a happy man! My head is spinning because there are so many solutions out there but there are also many complaints about each system too…

Thanks!

[Robertibi1]

I would not give up on the Q10 just yet. I own the Q10 and think it is a great value for the money. Give us some specifics on your system and the problems you are having. There are a lot of people with Q10s that will try and help. FYI, it took me countless hours over a period of 6-8 weeks to get mine working flawlessly. This is not to say the card is bad, the drivers could be better, but really my learning curve of properly configuring my system.

[dhassay]

Q10 all of the way. I will be buying another one to have 16 channels at once. I had some problems at first with beta drivers but that has been at least 6 months or so. One thing that I found is that using sonar was a big headache. I changed to cubase sx and have never looked back. I also dont use any outboard mixer.

[Cranky]

I'm willing to help http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif Just tell us what kind of problems you're having and your setup including chipset, processor, mobo, OS and any other PCI cards you have in your system. Also, VERY IMPORTANT, try the Q10 in different PCI slots to see in which one it works best. Having to install it in PCI slot 1 exclusively is a MYTH. What you need is a slot that is not sharing any resources regardless of slot #. Ever since I installed mine in PCI slot #3, things have been great (not perfect, but pretty close). I think that Aardvark is going to get it together sooner or later. They can't keep writing bad drivers forever http://www.audioforums.com/forums/wink.gif

[TotallyConfused]

Guys, thanks for the responses. I actually have 2 Q10s and have done nothing but fight with them. Cakewalk Sonar does strange things that don’t happen on a machine with an SB Audigy in it. I am currently using an ASUS A7S333 motherboard with 1GB of Corsair Ram in it. Other than the strange things with Sonar, it is pretty stable. I do want to run them in a smaller case though as I am recording mostly live bands and carrying a tower or even rackmount case is a pain. I bought the shuttle mini itx case & MOBO which is also a SIS chipset but had nothing but problems.

I really think the problems lie in the fact that the aardvark pci cards are not plug & play compliant. Any other PCI card or embedded card on the MOBO conflicts with it.
While I agree, the Q10 is a great unit and when it is working it is flawless. My only problem is the “when it is working” part.

I am looking to get something more stable and robust, maybe even more professional. I am a techy by profesion and when I am home recording, I would like to just record without worrying about the tool. With the Q10, I have always found “quirks” that distract me from the main goal of making music.

Robertibi1 Wrote:
FYI, it took me countless hours over a period of 6-8 weeks to get mine working flawlessly

dhassay Wrote:
One thing that I found is that using sonar was a big headache. I changed to cubase sx and have never looked back.

Cranky Wrote:
Ever since I installed mine in PCI slot #3, things have been great (not perfect, but pretty close).

These comments are exactly what I am talking about The Q10 has potential, but c'mon, should we all have to make comprimises to have a stable working system? I don't WANT to switch to Cubase because my hardware doesn't work well with it. Its a matter of principal damnit! http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

Now if I only knew what solution would work and work well!


[This message has been edited by TotallyConfused (edited 04-03-2003).]

[E]

Ive run Q10 in 2 systems with no problems...so there you go. I dont have other soundcards in the same system because they are not necessary. I run Sonar XL on the standard drivers, no ASIO.

Specifically, what "strange" problems do you have in Sonar? Tell us and let us help you.

[GB Joe]

For some reason I feel compelled to add my 2p in support of the Q10...

I've recently changed to a Gigabyte GA-7DXE (AMD 761 / Via 686). It may not be the latest thing out there, but I suspect it's probably the most stable AMD platform you can buy. Cheap, too. I've been through two ECS K7S5A mobos (SiS 735), one great, other absolute duffer. Treat with caution!

If you're the Intel type then you're probably on safer ground, but the chipset's still critical. I think the 845 is rumoured to be best, but some of the letters after are good whilst others are bad. That's helpful, isn't it?!?

Come on, dude, you're a techy - you can't resist the Aardvark challenge!

[knowdoubt]

MOTU 24i would make a lot of sense for your application. Single rack space breakout box with 24 analog inputs with level meters all connected to a single PCI card that can even accept further I/O expandability of adding any of the other breakout I/O options in the MOTU PCI card line without adding an additional PCI card & all breakout boxes connected to PC through slim light weight 15 ft firewire cable. The MOTO system is just about the most intelligently laid out pc recording hardware system out there. You would need external Pre's though.

It works to. I have the older version that uses the PCI 324 card & have done live 24 track hour long continuous record sessions with one on a P2 350 with absolute flawless operation.
It just so happens I've also tried it with that same Asus A7S333 MOBO & it worked flawlessly, though that was with Samplitude & I didn't get to try it with Sonar so take that FWIW.

[This message has been edited by knowdoubt (edited 04-04-2003).]

[Cranky]

I would say that if you can afford what you mentioned above (MOTU 2408 MK3 & Focusrite OctoPre or Presonus Digimax LT) go for it. I've heard nothing but good things about the MOTU stuff....and some Focusrite Pres.... come on! That's great gear you're talking about. For the money, the Q10 is a great unit, but you can't compare their Pres with some Focusrites. I chose my Q10 based on features and price. Every review I read was positive, especially when it came to sound, but obviously the reviewers weren't trying to use it with Windows XP or 2000. Their drivers are weak and don't work properly with other Windows applications, but for some reason, I and lots of other Forum members seem to be willing to put up with its quirkyness. Hold on!! Why do we put up with this crap? Is it that cute little glowing Armadillo? Hmmmm...

[TotallyConfused]

It must be the Glowing Armadillo http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

Well, I am half way there and so far, extremely happy. I bought a MOTU 2408 MK3, plugged it in and it just works! Want to know the best part? I don't have to disable the NIC, USB, Firewire, Nothing! It all works with no issues. Sonar has not done anything strange at all. I have been recording since 2:00 this afternoon without even 1 single blip.

Sorry guys for jumping the Aardvark ship. But so far, the water is great http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif

BTW: The Octopre is on the way

Thanks for everyone's help

[Bops2000]

You can donate any 'unstable' hardware to the Bops foundation for children needing disturbed lyrics.

[Alan]

Just so you know,I use M-Audio with WDM on Win 2k in Sonar w/AMD XP on a SiS 735 chipset.Works flawless with 1.5ms latencey with M-Audio's latest WDM drivers.Like the others say though,the Q-10 might be fine,but the chipset/board it's running on(plus OS)make a big difference.Although the Q-10 hardware looks nice,I personally wouldn't want to deal with the driver issues,or deal with Cubase SX's problems either.Echo and M-Audio seem to have the best WDM drivers for Sonar so far,with Aardvark and Motu being the most buggy seemingly.If your using an Athlon stick with SiS 735/745/746/748 or NForce 415 or NForce 2 chipsets.Works for me.

[oops]

If you are recording live latency should be no problem. Go to Sonar,Audio,and Advanced, and check the asio driver box. Go to the asio panel and set for 24 bit, crank the slider all the way to the right, and uncheck the turbo box.
This should make you stable in Sonar.
Have you looked at Nforce2 asus a7n8x deluxe motherboards??? Have you looked at the newer Shuttle Cases??? They would put you over the top for compact and reliable.
Good luck. Aardvark is the way to go, and it is stable on Nforce2. I still get some anomolies but only when pushing the system to max. http://www.rightwingproductions.com

[This message has been edited by oops (edited 04-05-2003).]

[Rv-Sound]

Hey TotallyConfused, would you be interested on selling one of your Q10's?..
Please lemme know...
bortizv@cox.net

[knowdoubt]

TotallyConfused;
Just thought it may interest you to know (if you don't already) that all of the legacy expansion modules that worked with MOTU's PCI 324 card will also work with your new PCI 424 card. This could be an inexpensive way for you to add more analog channels for live band recording. A 1224 for instance would give you another 8 analog I/O & a 24i would give you another 24 analog ins & 2 more outs. The converters & sound quality of those units are superb. They just are limited to sample rates of 44.1 or 48 which I've not seen the need or desire to exceed, especially for high track count live recording. actually I have a 1224 expansion module I'd be interested in selling (been thinking of ebaying it) as I don't need it since I have the 24i which is all the input's I'll ever need.

Anyway, congrats. You've bought an exceptional piece of gear there. Did you know all the expansion modules are hot swappable? Yep, when you want to add another rack of I/O's you simply plug'm into your existing PCI 424 card at the back of your PC via their slim audiowire cables.

[jdier]

OK you Q10/Sonar guys, riddle me this. I have posted this in a few places, so excuse me if you have already read or answered.

No outboard gear. Just two Q10's and a DAW running Sonar. No other pci cards (except nic, which I have not removed yet (and I have never plugged a cord into yet))

I get lock ups where I lose my inputs. First my meters in Sonar quit and audio engine does not fix it. Then I have no meter reading in the control panel of Aardvark.

At this point, I will have no inputs working at all and cannot record.

To remedy, I have to reboot. Following the reboot, Inputs #1 and #2 on unit one are deactivated and have to be turned back on. I am then good until it happens again.

These problems come during one of two events:

1. Plugging or unplugging 1/4" or XLR inputs into the Q10's (Is this a no-no?)

2. Adjusting input levels in the Q10 control panel while sonar is open.

Any feedback at all would be much appreciated.

>> I am also sending this to Thomas at Aardvark, I will post his reply if useful. <<

Jim

[E]

jdier... Are you on Windows XP? Make sure that you are running the latest driver, it is 7.04. If you are and still having the 'dropout' problem try this:

Go to Controlpanel/AdministrativeTools/Services

Click on the Aardvark Professional Audio Service. (It will probably have the "started" tab greyed out, which is what you want.)

Click on the Recovery Tab. In the drop down tabs that say "first failure", "second failure", "third failure"... select the "restart the service" in each of those tabs.

Click "Apply" or OK

It sounds as if your service is being interrupted for some reason. By selecting "restart the service" you are telling Windows XP to restart it if there it stops.

[laaba]

Hi gang,
I just upgraded to Win XP and run my Aardvark 2496 and i am pretty ok with it except my system gets tired after a while everything seems slow and heavy and i have to restart the aardvark to get it running normal again.Is there a solution to this?
Cheers

[TotallyConfused]

Rv-Sound,
I already sold both Q10's on ebay, they went pretty quick http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif Sorry...

knowdoubt,
Thanks for the info on the expansion capabilities. I did my homework this time around. I did see a few people having issues with the 424 being recognized, but I have had no issues. As far as the converters, it was like removing a blanket from my monitors. They are amazing. I have just spend a ton o $$ on all this crap, though one can never have too much analog I/O http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif Let me know before you put the 1224 on ebay, my wallet needs to recover for a bit...

WooHoo, there is life after Aardvark!

[jdier]

E,

I follow your logic and appreciate the input. This system is about 2-3 weeks old and has never had anything but Sonar and Q10 drivers loaded.

My feeling is that I should be able to find the CAUSE of the problem and fix that, opposed to curing the symptom.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions!

I am continuing to work with the team at Aardvark, so far they seem to be willing to work with me to solve the problem. Once solved, I will post results here.

Jim


Originally posted by E:
jdier... Are you on Windows XP? Make sure that you are running the latest driver, it is 7.04. If you are and still having the 'dropout' problem try this:

Go to Controlpanel/AdministrativeTools/Services

Click on the Aardvark Professional Audio Service. (It will probably have the "started" tab greyed out, which is what you want.)

Click on the Recovery Tab. In the drop down tabs that say "first failure", "second failure", "third failure"... select the "restart the service" in each of those tabs.

Click "Apply" or OK

It sounds as if your service is being interrupted for some reason. By selecting "restart the service" you are telling Windows XP to restart it if there it stops.