How Loud Is Too Loud? How Much Can Do Real Damage?

[razz]

Hey guys, just got my sennheriser and I love them. They sound great and are so comfortable!!!!

I've noticed something though, I can put my volume at above-than-average (as opposed to my older, cheaper headphones) and although it doesnt feel as loud, it still sounds great. I dont want to damage my ears, the music still sounds great (as opposed to the staticy sound you get with cheaper ones), but how would I know what's safe?

Like I said, I'm just trying to avoid long-term damage

thanks

[dcwave]

IMO - if you cannot hear someone talking to you while listening with headphones - its too loud.

[Togglehead]

^^^big second.

[Bops2000]

"LOUDNESS" is directionally proportionate to the drug being used. Hence more drugs or alcohol = more loud.
Generally, symptoms of consistantly answering the phone with no caller present will define your particular threshold of loud was exceeded.

[howie15]

I'm not sure how this translates to headphones, but I know the "statistical" level of acceptance is 80 or 85 dB for around 8 hours without starting to do damage. Now, the problem is that as you continue to listen to things your ears get a bit tired and you start to push the volume. They have a safety response to secret some fluid to protect themselves. Sounds now sound quieter and you push the volume more. You see where this is going. That is one way damage occurs.

Howie J.

[edform]

I'm not sure how this translates to headphones, but I know the "statistical" level of acceptance is 80 or 85 dB for around 8 hours without starting to do damage. Now, the problem is that as you continue to listen to things your ears get a bit tired and you start to push the volume. They have a safety response to secret some fluid to protect themselves. Sounds now sound quieter and you push the volume more. You see where this is going. That is one way damage occurs.

There is no fluid-secretion protection mechanism involved in the ear - the mechanism that protects the ear from excessive input is tightening of tiny muscles that support the system of three bones in the middle ear, the stapedius and tensor tympani muscles.

The three bones act as an amplifying system by two mechanisms...

1. They couple a large diaphragm, the ear drum, to a small one, the end of the stirrup which presurises the inner ear opening. This is a hydraulic amplification.

2. Leverage: there is a mechanical advantage across the three-bone system in favour of the end that actuates the sensors in the inner ear.

The overall amplification is typically 25dB.

The initial process of the lever system involves rolling contact between the hammer and the anvil, the first two bones in the chain. The contact area of the anvil is shaped as a logarithmic curve so that the leverage is reduced logarithmically with increasing input sound pressure level - this is how the ear can accomodate so wide a range of SPL

When the tiny muscles that support the bones tighten up, they alter the leverage across the system by moving the point of contact of hammer and anvil further up the logarithmic curve. If SPLs that cause this are encountered for too long, two forms of damage can occur...

1. The muscles become damaged and the point of contact remains too far up the log-curve of the anvil resulting in permanent loss of acuity. This is a major cause of age-deafness.

2. The log-curve of the anvil develops a groove from excessive contact with the hammer, and this locks the bones together so that the hammer cannot roll back down to the resting level. This is the mechanism that gives the crackling-ears effect after a night at a silly-loud rock concert: in effect the hammer can only move above a certain SPL level so you only hear the very loud bits of any incoming sound.

Protection against the onset of these forms of damage to the hearing needs to be two-fold...

1. Keep overall sound dose levels in check - I believe one of the posters here said: avoid sustained sound levels where you cannot converse with the person next to you.

2. For you guys in the pro-audio and music recording fields: build more dynamics into your music. DOn't compress the sound to a narrow range of SPL so that it can only be exciting by lifting the whole range to excessive levels. Build in large contrasts of level which *are* exciting and which are much more easily accomodated by the ear's systems without damage.

Ed Form

[BIG SHANE]

I've read that "in ear headphones" are said to do damage period. And as far as someone saying if you can't hear someone its too loud my ear buds are sound cancelling so I usually have to listen to only one bud unless i know that no one needs me for anything.

[Togglehead]

Ed....dont mean to jack the thread but...what causes permanent ringing?

That was a great write up...

[edform]

Ed....dont mean to jack the thread but...what causes permanent ringing?

I really can't answer that one - One form of such problem, the well known ear misbehaviour called Tinnitus, apparently has many causes. There's a particularly good website maintained by the American Tinnitus Association that gives a lot of background and practical tips for sufferers.

I do know that over exposure to really loud sound can physically strain the ear drum which definitely causes ringing - in the light of the original question in this thread that's a situation that we should all try to avoid.

Ed Form

[vulcan_dc]

great info Ed.. thanks for sharing....

welcome to AF...

[howie15]

Good to know that. I was told that fact a while back but never took it upon myself to look it up. I still believe the number part is true though.

Howie J

[ecc83]

Good morning all,

I do not know which model you have Razz but I note from the Sennheiser site that the HD 215's have a sensitivity of 112dB at 1KhZ for 1Vrms. A quick pull of the spec' of a Mackie 1642 shows it capable of 2Vrms! So caution is certainly called for. Lesser mixers and AI's will be less capable but even at neg 10 there will still be damaging levels.

In UK at least the max industrial 8hour exposure (and I could be out of date here) is around 85dBSPL with levels of 100dB having to be very short lived. Since the Sennheisers are easily capable of exceeding even these figures I think the advice of staying with levels where you are still aware of external sounds and frequent breaks is the best.

Dave.