Newbie Questions

[Mike-O]

Hi, I'm brand new to recording (actually haven't started yet). I just put together a new PC with an ASUS P5K-E motherboard with 4GB DDR2 memory, built-in firewire and a Seagate SATA drive running at 7200 running on XP Pro sp2. I bought a Firepod from Musicians Friend and it won't install. Tried their tech support and they were friendly but couldn't get it going. The drivers would never recognize the Firepod. I'm gonna send it back and I'm considering getting the M-Audio Delta 1010 (the one with the separte breakout box). Do you think this would be a good match for this system? I'm scared to get another Firewire interface since the first one didn't work.

A couple of other questions if you don't mind. I'm looking to get some preamps for recording drums and vocals and such. If you were me (I don't want to spend a ton of money until I see if this recording thing works out) would you buy a 8 port preamp like the Nady or would you get a mixer with built in preamps. I have several mics and a lot of musical equipment, just nothing yet for recording.

I'm thinking about getting the new M-Powered Protools 7.3 recording software to go with this. Any opinions on this package?

If you had $1000 - $1500 to spend on your hardware and software (not counting mics) and avoiding firewire what would you buy?

[itsplayed]

Hi Mike-O and welcome to the forums....
Have you checked to make sure that the firewire controller is compatible with the firepod?
Have you made sure that everything is clean in the device manager?
Have you tried updating the firewire controllers driver set?
A simple PCI/firewire card w/TI(Texas Instruments) chipset may be the fix, if the controller is not compatible(if it's a VIA controller chip, I'd go with an add-in card regardless).
Spend your extra cash on another hard drive at least and a good set of studio monitors if you don't have them.

If your heart is set on going with a PCI interface.....What are your input/output requirements/needs?

[nagal]

I am fairly certain that that Asus board does not have a TI FireWire chipset and more than likely be the cause of the FirePod not installing. I tried to check Asus's website but its dead slow right now so could not confirm the chipset.

[robertruetz]

If you're interested in Pro-Tools M-Powered, I'd definitely go with an M-Audio interface/card that includes it. I think that's pretty standard for M-Audio these days.

I had a great experience with the FireBox, but never stepped up to the POD. I'm currently running MOTU Firewire now. I'd definitely check the chipset on your Firewire port. Most people have pretty bad luck with anything besides TI chips.

Good Luck, Welcome to the AF.
Le_Singe
:cool:

[tech1]

If you're interested in Pro-Tools M-Powered, I'd definitely go with an M-Audio interface/card that includes itM-Audio only includes demos of PTMP. If you want the full version, you need to purchase it separately.

[Mike-O]

Thanks for your inputs. The Firewire chipset is made by AGERE. I forget the number but I think it's like a FW322 or something like that. I got Presonus on the line twice and they had me try a bunch of things (including loading the latest drivers) but they didn't mention the actual firewire port. But this is the kind of input I'm looking for. I really hate to have to buy a seperate Firewire card. I didn't realize that I needed to buy the interface first and then see what kind of PC I needed to build after I got it. Now that I have it I want to see what's compatible with it before I get another one. I'm only looking to spend around 400 on the interface, then maybe 600 - 1000 on the software and preamps and or mixer.

Like I mentioned, I'm a complete newbie. Been a guitar player for longer than I want to admit and now my daughter has a college band (jazz/fusion) going that sounds pretty darn good. I'd like to be able to record a reasonable demo for them. I'm completely open to your suggestions. If there's a reason I should be going with Firewire, USB or PCI I'd love to hear it. What's your best system you can put together for $1000 - $1500 not counting mics? Keep in mind I'll be recording drums too.

[itsplayed]

With $1500 to spend, here is how I would spend it...

1) E-Mu 1616M(PCI)........................................ ...$450.00
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/1616MPCI/
2) Behringer ADA8000..........................................$ 230.00
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHADA8000 (Sorry Sweetwater doesn't carry it)
3) Sonar7 Producer Upgrade from LE......................$450.00
http://store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10-CWSP7.00-30C
4) Use what's left for studio monitors(if you haven't any), Headphone amp and headphones for the band and audio interconnects.

There are many other possibilities, but (IMHO) this would be the best 'bang for your buck' route to take.

This may put you slightly over budget, but you could forgo the upgrade to Sonar7 for the time being as the E-MU comes with plenty of software to get you going, allowing you to concentrate on getting a better set of monitors and the extras(ie. headphones, interconnects, etc.)
http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=505&subcategory=491&product=15189&nav=softwareBundle

Otherwise, I would consider keeping the Firepod(it's a good unit) and getting that TI PCI/Firewire add-in card, as there's no reason why the Firepod shouldn't work with your system other than for chipset incompatibility.

[ecc83]

I would definately go pci and a mixer. If you have a lot of kit and maybe in a band/live situation, a mixer is very handy. Not so is a box of mic pre's.

You need to look for a mixer with 8 mic ins and INSERTS so you can pull signal straight into the 1010. Better would be direct outs or enough busses but this would be costly at this stage.

Yes, as Matt said, the PT demo is just that! You cannot save your work, chocolate teapot.

Don't let that put you off M-Audio though, great kit.

Dave

[kope]

I will go on different way. Why to use live recording for Demo? Is much cheaper and better sound quality if you use drum machine (or software sampler) and record other instruments one by one.

[itsplayed]

Not for nothing, but nothing beats a live drum sound on your projects IMHO. Given the choice between software/drum machine and a live drummer, I'd choose the live kit every time. Besides, unless your doing solo projects, playing and recording a live session is where it's at. I currently use eight mics on the drum kit with guitar, bass, keys and a vocal scratch track that gets replaced afterward along with backing vocals(except in the case of instrumentals of course).

[kope]

Not for nothing, but nothing beats a live drum sound on your projects IMHO. Given the choice between software/drum machine and a live drummer, I'd choose the live kit every time. Besides, unless your doing solo projects, playing and recording a live session is where it's at. I currently use eight mics on the drum kit with guitar, bass, keys and a vocal scratch track that gets replaced afterward along with backing vocals(except in the case of instrumentals of course).
We are talking about DEMO and low cost production, and just for discussion, if you don't have treated room for drums i can't believe that you will get an good sound. Live drummer you can record by MIDI and after you can use some sampler. With proper programming and some experienced ear is hard to reach sound of Battery or Addictive or Dfx .

[itsplayed]

if you don't have treated room for drums i can't believe that you will get an good sound.

I disagree, there have been some very good recordings done in untreated rooms and depending on the type of music being played(and of course the players) an untreated room may be a better option.
Here's a good article that will shed some light on the subject......
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/dec97/drumiking1.html

[Bops2000]

if I may Hack, on myspace, link below, I threw on a track from my basically untreated room called Sm Rm Drums. It is just 8 tracks analog to 2 tracks to DAW. Snare is lite on purpose for the tight rimshot ring -(50's style). All tracks are 'as-is' no effects. (I did this for 87, but it may fit here also). No 'Magic' feel on this one.. need horn section to get a groove..
I think machines are fine given the right element, but a good player, (not I), is a good player none the less and would get the listener involved.

[itsplayed]

Sounds good to me Bops, clean, crisp and clear....kudos!

[poorsod]

1) E-Mu 1616M(PCI)........................................ ...$450.00
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/1616MPCI/
2) Behringer ADA8000..........................................$ 230.00
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHADA8000 (Sorry Sweetwater doesn't carry it)
3) Sonar7 Producer Upgrade from LE......................$450.00
http://store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10-CWSP7.00-30C
4) Use what's left for studio monitors(if you haven't any), Headphone amp and headphones for the band and audio interconnects.

I'd say that recommendation was pretty much bang on for a rock band on that kind of budget. good call played ;)

[itsplayed]

I'd say that recommendation was pretty much bang on for a rock band on that kind of budget. good call played ;)

Thanks poorsod....I'm glad that you agree with my recommendation.....cheers!

[Mike-O]

Itsplayed, thank you for you suggestions. I've got a good drum kit and plan on recording it. My room is a 20 X 18 converted garage we call "the band room". I put blow-in insulation in the walls (it was already sheetrocked) an acoustic drop ceiling and carpet. I put some (not a lot) of the audio foam type treatment on the walls and built some other treatments. The idea was to be able to play bass in there without rattling the neighbors windows. It came out pretty nice but I still plan on making some of the do it yourself bass traps.

I'm going to buy another firewire card with a TI chipset tomorrow and see if that's the problem. Hopefully that's what it is. If it's not I might just go with your suggestion on the 1616. Question for you on that tho. From the picture it looks like the 1616 just has a couple of inputs on it. How would I get the 8 tracks from the ADA8000 into it and would all 8 individual tracks end up on the PC software?

[kope]

if I may Hack, on myspace, link below, I threw on a track from my basically untreated room called Sm Rm Drums. It is just 8 tracks analog to 2 tracks to DAW. Snare is lite on purpose for the tight rimshot ring -(50's style). All tracks are 'as-is' no effects. (I did this for 87, but it may fit here also). No 'Magic' feel on this one.. need horn section to get a groove..
I think machines are fine given the right element, but a good player, (not I), is a good player none the less and would get the listener involved.
You must to be joking. This is nice record for the '80s? That much trouble for making live drum record and after using crappie synth brass section. I would say this is under needed quality for fusion demo today. He will got problem with doter, kids today are not in clouds of dreams. Who gives a **** for '60, '70, '80, '90... They walking on the ground and plays great music. We can discus about this great times but don't give advice that this is solution for one new band .

[poorsod]

How would I get the 8 tracks from the ADA8000 into it and would all 8 individual tracks end up on the PC software?

The ADAT lightpipe, officially the ADAT Optical Interface, is a standard for the transfer of digital audio between equipment. It was originally developed by Alesis but has since become widely accepted,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADAT_Lightpipe#_note-0) with many third party hardware manufacturers including lightpipe interfaces on their equipment. So popular has the protocol become that the term "ADAT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADAT)" is now often used to refer to the transfer standard rather than the Alesis Digital Audio Tape itself.
So: by ADAT, and yes. The 1616M has an additional 8 line-level analog inputs on the back IIRC.

[itsplayed]

Itsplayed, thank you for you suggestions. I've got a good drum kit and plan on recording it. My room is a 20 X 18 converted garage we call "the band room". I put blow-in insulation in the walls (it was already sheetrocked) an acoustic drop ceiling and carpet. I put some (not a lot) of the audio foam type treatment on the walls and built some other treatments. The idea was to be able to play bass in there without rattling the neighbors windows. It came out pretty nice but I still plan on making some of the do it yourself bass traps.

I'm going to buy another firewire card with a TI chipset tomorrow and see if that's the problem. Hopefully that's what it is. If it's not I might just go with your suggestion on the 1616. Question for you on that tho. From the picture it looks like the 1616 just has a couple of inputs on it. How would I get the 8 tracks from the ADA8000 into it and would all 8 individual tracks end up on the PC software?

Your welcome Mike-O and good luck with that firewire card,
The E-MU 1616M gives you two mic pres up front with an additional 4 line ins on the rear. There is also an ADAT port that would interface with the ADA8000 giving you an additional 8 mic/line ins.
I normally use the ADA8000 to mic the kit and use either the line ins on the rear or the pres up front for instrument/vocals. This setup gives you 14 inputs(14 individual tracks). I keep the keyboards connected via midi. I also have a midi drum kit connected at times....either via midi or directly line in to a stereo pair
I use the 1820M which has an additional 2 line ins on the rear.

[Bops2000]

He is good, ain't he Sod.

[Bops2000]

Sounds good to me Bops, clean, crisp and clear....kudos!
HACK THREAD 2
hey thanks Bro, now I added how that dry mix fits with other dry tracks, (horns are from a roland, need to redo real sax parts), for the fake horns: I compressed, verbed, gated as best i could to make them sound real, almost-no cigar...
Last tune on myspace. I am done with the issue of Small rooms" here.
Just tryin to make a point. sorry Mike for the hack.

[itsplayed]

Sounds good Boppers and the animated doll on that sliming machine was getting her groove on as well....:D

[Mike-O]

Just to update this, I sent the Firepod to Presonus and they repaired it and sent it back in less than a week, even upgraded it to the FP10. Great customer service. (I bought it as a scratch and dent but they're honoring the new warranty on it.) Plugged it in and it works like a charm using the motherboard's firewire ports. The Firepod came with Cubase LE. I noticed on Cakewalk's webpage that they had a "crossgrade" program going that owners of Cubase (even LE) could buy Sonar 7 at a rediculously low price. I got Sonar 7 Studio edition for around $130 and it seems to be more than I'll ever need. So I have a bad@ss interphase and DAW for around $410. I've recorded a couple of things just using an Audix OM2 for guitars and vocals and the sound quality is amazing. I have a lot to learn but it should be both fun and frustrating. Thanks for all your help and I'm sure I'll be asking for lots of help figuring all this out.

[itsplayed]

Congrats Mike-O, glad to hear everything is working out for your so far. I also agree that the crossgrade offer from Cakewalk is a good one and a tough one to pass up....especially for those with LE software that comes bundled for free with many interfaces. Cakewalk has proven itself to have a good customer relations policy.....cheers!