advice on buying an outdoor p.a system

[soudchecks]

hi ive been a sound and lighting technician for about 10 years but have to admit the last 5 have been extremely quiet for me looking at building up a buissiness in australia for large outdoor giggs. i was looking at spending around and maybe above $80,000 on equipment. i was thinking to overkill on the sound being outdoor venues and cannot be gaurunteed of weather and sound travelle. main things im not to sure on are what sort of drivers and amplifiers would give me best qaulity keeping in mind will be for extremely large outdoor venues. also some feed back on some new proccessors and effects units ive been finding it hard to get alot of information anywere on proffessional equipment as there isnt a huge demand for it over here.

p.s this is the first real sound website ive found in years great stuff ive been reading some of the responses and im rather impressed :)

[sabianq]

my advice,
from setting up a lot of out door stuff,
for equipment, use only pro quality equipment,
EAW, QSC MACKIE, Soundcraft.

then ALWAYS set up a Party Canopy over the stage.
http://www.atlanticclarion.com/images/photos/acsb_outside_concert.jpg

[sabianq]

and what do you consider "extremely Large"

[sabianq]

"extremely Large" venues usually have line arrays as an audio system

check out this thread for a "large" venue 20,000 strong

http://audioforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18798

[lowdbrent]

Forget the Mackie. Anything (Excluding 1604s) Mackie is trouble from a reliability and service perspective.

I don't know what you're business is based on. You should compile the tech riders and look at what the competition has done over the past year or two. Then buy what you need based on that. If you don't know what you need to buy, then it is likely that you are not connected with the industry there enough to cover your expenses. Line up the sales first. Get some gigs. Find out what it takes and then buy that.

Here in the states it is easy to recommend most anything. But in Australia, some brands are not as supported as others. Some budget brands here are expensive there due to taxes.

I would call the importers and sales reps for the largest, best represented manufacturers there. Build a relationship. This should open the door to demos at gigs, so that you can decide what you what. You will likely get a better deal buying all of your gear from someone like Harmon (JBL, Soundcraft, dbx, Crown) at the end of an off seasonal quarter. They are willing to make deals when things are slow.

Keep your mics simple and go with Shure. No other manufacturer has a flat rate for repairs/replacements on preducts like Shure has. It is VERY good for you. Rental mics will be abused. Spending $30 to replace a 58 is much better than $69-99.

[soudchecks]

my advice,
from setting up a lot of out door stuff,
for equipment, use only pro quality equipment,
EAW, QSC MACKIE, Soundcraft.

then ALWAYS set up a Party Canopy over the stage.
http://www.atlanticclarion.com/images/photos/acsb_outside_concert.jpg



thnx bud a canopy is always a must as never know if its going to rain or not and as for brand names thnx ill look up some of there equipment to ;)

[soudchecks]

and what do you consider "extremely Large"


i hope the attachment works this is an average event size im looking to put on without having to hire anything its not a small mission and it may take a few years but will be one of 2 companies in my state that will be equiped for an event as big as the olympics for an example as australia has large open spaces and we can get permits for 3phase to be put anywere we can hold an event in past we have hired from a melbourne companie to hold events but are looking at buying the equipment to make more proffit from hire when an event is held. hope the pic gives an idea of what size the venues are.

[soudchecks]

Forget the Mackie. Anything (Excluding 1604s) Mackie is trouble from a reliability and service perspective.

I don't know what you're business is based on. You should compile the tech riders and look at what the competition has done over the past year or two. Then buy what you need based on that. If you don't know what you need to buy, then it is likely that you are not connected with the industry there enough to cover your expenses. Line up the sales first. Get some gigs. Find out what it takes and then buy that.

Here in the states it is easy to recommend most anything. But in Australia, some brands are not as supported as others. Some budget brands here are expensive there due to taxes.

I would call the importers and sales reps for the largest, best represented manufacturers there. Build a relationship. This should open the door to demos at gigs, so that you can decide what you what. You will likely get a better deal buying all of your gear from someone like Harmon (JBL, Soundcraft, dbx, Crown) at the end of an off seasonal quarter. They are willing to make deals when things are slow.

Keep your mics simple and go with Shure. No other manufacturer has a flat rate for repairs/replacements on preducts like Shure has. It is VERY good for you. Rental mics will be abused. Spending $30 to replace a 58 is much better than $69-99.


the companies ive worked for in the past have ran large sets and each and everybodies opinions are different you could ask one person about a unit or several units they use over here and only a select few could probably tell you its pros and cons most the ppl here are just operators and dont think about the gear as it is supplied to them my aim is to know supplie and use the gear myself as well as a few select road crew i have met over the years most of the venues will be goverment funded as they have just started up an initiative in music to get young ppl off the streets and taking there aggressions and feelings out on music (great idea if you ask me but is not for every one ) but at the same time good for buissiness. my second aim is to have one of the largest p.a systems in australia for international artists who dont wish to take all there stuff from one country to another when it would be much easier and cheaper to hire the same quality gear through the companie that will be doing the sound loccally but will only work if the best is available take pearl jams 96 tour from google as an example.

as for mics yer i will only buy shure and my prefference for drums and percussion are the akg range;)

P.S alot of the gear is beringher ...YUK...

[soudchecks]

a large system can always be ripped down for smaller venues;)

[87PRS]

soudcheck, welcome to the audioforums....for a system that is versatile I'd suggest getting components that work well together in a large venue that can also be scaled to any performance situation, take into consideration how JBL & Crown are designed to work well together along with the DBX Driverack 260 for PA management, and a Pro Console like A & H 2400-40 or Digital console like the Yamaha 02R96 Vr 2, plus any large format Soundcraft console analog or digital and....cabling and wireless sytems...you are not going to want and hand a mic to someone with a hundred feet of cord attached ; )

Another big dollar item is scafolding for stage and PA spkr towers....plus the roof for shelter on rainy looking days can have a huge impact on your budget without the gear. Large amplifiers to add to as much as (at least) fourty thousand watts mains, and spec'ed total spkr cabs and stage monitors + power should get the music going!

[lowdbrent]

You mentioned that this is the first real site you have found. Hear are the big boys:

www.prosoundweb.com
www.prosoundnews.com
www.recording.org (there is a live sound forum)

[soudchecks]

soudcheck, welcome to the audioforums....for a system that is versatile I'd suggest getting components that work well together in a large venue that can also be scaled to any performance situation, take into consideration how JBL & Crown are designed to work well together along with the DBX Driverack 260 for PA management, and a Pro Console like A & H 2400-40 or Digital console like the Yamaha 02R96 Vr 2, plus any large format Soundcraft console analog or digital and....cabling and wireless sytems...you are not going to want and hand a mic to someone with a hundred feet of cord attached ; )

Another big dollar item is scafolding for stage and PA spkr towers....plus the roof for shelter on rainy looking days can have a huge impact on your budget without the gear. Large amplifiers to add to as much as (at least) fourty thousand watts mains, and spec'ed total spkr cabs and stage monitors + power should get the music going!


i do like the crown range of amps i was aiming for 40,000 to 80,000 watts to get the music going fairly hard at foh and i havent had much expierience with cordless microphones as for scaffolding i was going to get some alliminium trusses welded up so easy to put together and pull down with minimum wiegth possible but also sturdy so far i thinking bout buying between 12 and 16 MA-2002VZ amplifiers But im worried about the drivers as there is a lot of power coming out of those im finding it hard to get information on drivers this package im buying is a 2 year project but would like to know what im buying b4 i start to order as the money will be alot to waste if first time i set it up i blow it up becoz it wasnt thought through properly.

[soudchecks]

You mentioned that this is the first real site you have found. Hear are the big boys:

www.prosoundweb.com
www.prosoundnews.com
www.recording.org (there is a live sound forum)



thnx for the advice ill be sure to check those sites out now

[soudchecks]

just wondering if instead of crown trying 84,000 watts crest power amps (14-6Kwatt racks

[soudchecks]

Lows: Folded horn 18 inch (Vega B36)(x16),Mid-Range: Horn-Loaded dual JBL 12 inch (x16), Highs: Altec 511B horns backed with JBL 2426 drivers (x32), any thoughts?

[87PRS]

Lows: Folded horn 18 inch (Vega B36)(x16),Mid-Range: Horn-Loaded dual JBL 12 inch (x16), Highs: Altec 511B horns backed with JBL 2426 drivers (x32), any thoughts?

Dunno the exact model numbers you have listed....but you can't go wrong with Cerwin-Vega, JBL and Altec....we used Altec components for tour in the 70's and they never let us down.

Aluminum trusses is the way to go....of course another high dollar item not discussed, and you may be going to sub this out is ...lighting... follow spots & stage lights are going to add to the bill.

Wireless mics are a must.

Why are you concerned about the drivers? Most high end systems have driver over-load protection, and if the gear is spec'd correctly you won't have to worry...too much hehe

Two year project........ample time to get it right. Hey....there is another company that makes PA gear, its a step up from Behringer and I have used it for along time with no problems, its dependable, good speaker arrays, and fairly inexpensive, they do large packages which could save ya some dough, if they export "down-under"
check out http://www.carvin.com

[soudchecks]

Dunno the exact model numbers you have listed....but you can't go wrong with Cerwin-Vega, JBL and Altec....we used Altec components for tour in the 70's and they never let us down.

Aluminum trusses is the way to go....of course another high dollar item not discussed, and you may be going to sub this out is ...lighting... follow spots & stage lights are going to add to the bill.

Wireless mics are a must.

Why are you concerned about the drivers? Most high end systems have driver over-load protection, and if the gear is spec'd correctly you won't have to worry...too much hehe

Two year project........ample time to get it right. Hey....there is another company that makes PA gear, its a step up from Behringer and I have used it for along time with no problems, its dependable, good speaker arrays, and fairly inexpensive, they do large packages which could save ya some dough, if they export "down-under"
check out http://www.carvin.com

thnx mate ill be sure to check carvin out im pretty sure they do export to "down under " ive seen some of there gear at some of the clubs in melbourne been away for a few days so still catching up:D

aswell a thankyou to all who have added there bit as you said everyones opinions are different and i take them all into account keep the tunes a comin;) and look forward to reading more posts

[amradioguy]

HI I myself don't do very large venues but i have found one co that does a nice job with amps and systems is carvin I currently own one complete system that i use for very small venues and dj gigs and i also have a couple of thier amps I use for medium venue stuff you might want to consider
them thier gear seems really well built for the money you spend

good luck