Trading in My Digital for Analogue...

[Sloom]

I'm considering this. But I'm a small time recordist with lo-fi aspirations, and a very simple approach with possibilities would suit me fine. I have a Tascam 788 and M-30 mixer. Also a PC with some software.

I'm considering a Tascam 388, which is a reel-to-reel recorder with a mixer built-on. This looks like a great idea. Also there are cassette machines that are very nice, but more than 4 tracks would be desirable.

I love the possibilities with digital; and the idea of not having to deal with storing tapes or carry them around is neat, but the menu-driven all-in-one DAW is making me nuts. And I miss the tape sound.

Am I barking up a wayward tree here, wanting to track to tape, then import to PC and mix in-the-box? I'm a simple man- I need a simple plan that works well and can be expanded someday.

Thanks for any opinions, suggestions, wisdom.

[oretez]

there may still be a number of reasons to configure an analog recording space, but simplicity is not one of them

particularly if you are planning on mixing digitally

and you can get whatever of the 'tape' sound you want by mixing down to a tape master

there is no magnetic tape system out there that provides the dynamic range of even entry level digital . . . even the rawest 16 bit cards were roughly equivalent to cassette (with noise reduction)

and except in the basic and simple set ups (e.g. recording with embedded mic on analog recorder) signal routing is neither simpler nor easier in the analog world

[dcwave]

I started out with the 388 - nice piece of kit. I wish I still had it.

[Sloom]

there may still be a number of reasons to configure an analog recording space, but simplicity is not one of them

particularly if you are planning on mixing digitally

and you can get whatever of the 'tape' sound you want by mixing down to a tape master

there is no magnetic tape system out there that provides the dynamic range of even entry level digital . . . even the rawest 16 bit cards were roughly equivalent to cassette (with noise reduction)

and except in the basic and simple set ups (e.g. recording with embedded mic on analog recorder) signal routing is neither simpler nor easier in the analog world

I have a 4-track recording of my bass in a 'break' on a tune, and it's really cool. Tape does something to the signal that the digital recording doesn't quite capture.

The dynamic range thing is understood, though. However, I find myself a bit confused in ways by digital signal routing. It's all conceptual, and not a thing you can "see". Cables- these I can see are plugged in to something. I dunno.

Anyway, I'll probably just get my old Yamaha 4-track repaired (or get a used Tascam) and incorporate it inot my projects. Split signals and track alongside what goes into the 788, add it afterward. And there are some fun gags you can do using a funky old cassette player/recorder...

Allright, thanks for the offering.

[GZsound]

I say use whatever you want and whatever you like.

I used an eight track reel to reel tape machine for years and enjoyed it greatly. I eventually started mixing to stereo and using a USB interface to get the mixed tracks into the computer for finalizing, mastering, level, EQ, etc. And the simplicity of the system worked for me.

[jmail]

The machines are available ocassionally on eBay, but be careful of someone selling you one that looks fine, but has a couple-three channels not functioning... Another consideration, find a 2-track machine, and use it as an "effects" box of sorts. I do that ocassionally - rather, seldomly, 'cause it's a poin-en-duh-iss... The problem with tape these days is finding the tape to record on. It's sooo shtinking expensive anymore. Not only that, but you break the machine, it is sometimes quite an adventure to find parts. One place to look would be Reel To Reel Vintage Texas (http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/vintagetx/index.html).

[87PRS]

nothing wrong with tape recording or open reel...I still have a 4 tracker in the studio, and use it for song ideas... this was my main problem in actually going all digital :confused:

here's a cool link
http://audiotools.com/vr2r.html

[jmail]

Ya know, really, I didn't know *how* to spend money until I went digital. Now there's this insatiable appetite for money...

[Sloom]

Ya know, really, I didn't know *how* to spend money until I went digital. Now there's this insatiable appetite for money...

You have to stop reading all those ads!

The PC is great once you have a software app down (I have gotten pretty annoyed with software apps and their learning curves, particular procedures, etc. But I've gotten it now- what a briar patch). I like it for editing, processing, mixing. But I don't trust it for recording, and don't relate to it. I got that 788, and it's better because it's not subject to the same complexities the PC is. It's a recorder...

The two things in the way of reel-tape for me are maintenance, and the cost of tape. A HD is almost cheating. Good! But I'm eventually getting my cassette 4-trk fixed (just needs a belt). Need to have the cassette thing around, at least.

I did have a TEAC 3340s, but I traded it for an LCD mic- an AT4033a. I think it was a good idea, as I had no very nice mics at the time. That's still the best one in the box. I also don't have the spit-and-polish space, and was a little worried about the machine. It got a better home, I'm believing.

Front-ending the 788 with a Tascam M-30 has helped too. Dealing with it.

[poorsod]

the menu-driven all-in-one DAW is making me nuts.

*points at Tracktion or Live*

Both were designed to eschew the traditional DAW layout so they'd be perfect for the likes of you, who are exasperated with all the windows and menus.

Plus you can get plugins to provide an emulation of tape-saturation. The good ones have it down to a tee.

[Sloom]

nothing wrong with tape recording or open reel...I still have a 4 tracker in the studio, and use it for song ideas... this was my main problem in actually going all digital :confused:

here's a cool link
http://audiotools.com/vr2r.html

That's a cool link. The first [aragraph or so being particularly interesting.

[Sloom]

*points at Tracktion or Live*

Both were designed to eschew the traditional DAW layout so they'd be perfect for the likes of you, who are exasperated with all the windows and menus...

You know, I got Sonar Home Studio last year, and then got interested in Tracktion! It's true- the opening this and shutting that are tedious windows chores for doing sound, even with keystrokes. Ungainly in nature, and Sonar is full of menus! But you can configure a lot of it. And at my level of "production" I can't justify spending again for what amounts to a set of pretty similar tools (you can't re-sell Cakewalk). As long as I can mix in it I can be allright.

I've considered either a move up to SHS6 from SHS4, or going to Tracktion, which I understand is EZ to work in once you get it. Even Reaper has the typical windows things, though it's better than Sonar for that. Reaper also has this odd "Folders" trip, instead of using a more typical Groups or Busses idea.

Everyone wants you to learn some thing specific to their app. I find this a little burdensome and unnecessary. (*stops whining here*)

[poorsod]

The trouble is that digital mixing and DSP is a relatively new art and though there are some conventions that make sense (the mixers look like old-school analog ones) there are others that, well, don't (or haven't been established yet).

Like imposing arbitrary plug-in limits per track; though 8 is quite high and more is often a CPU strain, it's quite a shortsighted limit; especially with the rise of multicore processors people are able to run more plugins in one go. And when you've already got a reverb, EQ, compressor and limiter on the track (which is my default setup), that's half your DSP slots gone. Factor guitar processing in, which can use up to three or more plugs (amplifier, cabinet/mic, FX), you've totally run out.

Rant over.

[GZsound]

I would suggest looking into buying a used ADAT unit. I have seen them going for $300 or less on my local Craigslist.

You get a tape based system with tapes that are easy to transport, digital audio that pretty much blows away any inexpensive reel to reel or cassette multitrack systems and can be easily connected to a computer for DAW based editing, mixing, etc. if necessary. And they couldn't be more simple to use.

They also make decent converters if you ever decide to start recording "in the box".

I bought a used ADAT unit six months ago that had 40 hours on it. Paid $250 for it and use it to do live multitrack recordings and as a digital converter that allows me to have eight seperate headphone mixes.. Pretty cheap.