Another Reason to fully support XP with GOOD drivers!

[Buyabeat.com]

With the standard of FireWire becoming strong, it only reliably and quickly works on OS's later than WinME.

Painstakingly, I spent an entire 24 hour period getting a new PC together, going back to the "'ol" WinXP latest driver from Aardvark. I had promised myself that I would not resort to such hassle, as Win98se and ME were perfect with the Q10.

I built a new PC with the best parts I could get, and a motherboard with less features for less conflicts. It was to be an AUDIO ONLY PC:

Gigabyte P4 Titan 667 SIS648 chipset
P4 2.4B processor
Maxtor ATA133 drives on 0+1 Raid Stripe - Promise PCI Controller
32MB Nvidia AGP card (simple, and great)
Corsair 512MB DDR400 C2 RAM
Koolance water cooling block, radiator, pump...

And you wouldn't believe how fast this setup works - the 648 chipset works so well for audio, better than any ther chipset I've worked on. Well, all audio apps, except Cubase SX!

When I open up a project, the mouse freezes gradually to a full stop, just like the other instances I've had with other motherboards (but I thought they were incompatible 845 chipset mobo's!). I must then hard reboot my PC.

So I can't do one thing with Cubase SX and the Q10's driver. I know this is a driver issue because I had this happen before at the same spot. But I can't figure out exactly what it is! It's not LAN, cause the baord doesn't have a NIC. It has no floppy, cdrom, zip, or ANYTHING ELSE except a firewire PCI card and SCSI card.

Any good luck with the pre-release? Can I try it somebody?!?!? I need a solution really quick because FireWire is an absolute must in my studio!!

Thankyou

[Alan]

Firewire and SCSI might possibly be conflicting as far as what IRQ and upper memory ranges are required so you might have play the IRQ dance.Also do you have USB enabled as well?

[Buyabeat.com]

I do not have USB enabled on this PC.

The SCSI card isn't allocated any resources and is just sitting there but even pulled out, it still hangs.

I diagnosed more closely. When I open certain projects that are very large, it hangs. I can create a project and open some with only one or two tracks of audio or MIDI, but ones with more plugins and tracks are problematic. Still, I can't open any projects I've been working on. This sucks - XP uninstallation would require me to reformat and all that $hit plus FireWire needs XP... damnit. And ya know when you run out of time it sucks. I've got the patience though... that's what keeps me holding onto this thing. I need Bill Gates to start partying with Aardvark and teach some secret to unlock driver stability (as with every other company). Is that what LOGO TESTING might be??? So how much would it cost ya to get the real specs to making your product work on every motherboard and processor with great stability? Logo Testing?

Another thing that's bugging me is the fact that the Aardvark Manager, just to be running it's little service, robs about 500-600MB/s of memory bandwidth from my system. It's still alot, not as much as installing one of Nvidia's Detonator drivers (which takes up to 800MB/s) but is still enough to make me frown at trying to achieve 3GB/s bandwidth (which I get before the Q10 is installed).

I do feel my instability of my system is largely due to the XP driver for the Q10. Before my card was installed, my system booted up in a mere 18 seconds. Now, the Aardvark Service adds a whole 15 seconds or more to my bootup time, with even my serial mouse lagging at the pre-windows (XP welcome) screen. It's kinda like that time waiting for the Media Player in XP to hurry and play my mix, even lagging with the fix from the website (plus changing the memory allocation back to "Programs", not "background services" - which conflicts with Steinberg's recommendation... what's up with that?). We're told to do something with that conflicting setting, but then get no explanation. I wish I worked at some of these companies because I really feel customer service is the driving force behind sales.

Further, I notice other buggy time-consuming things I can't exactly put my finger on, but things are laggin when they never did in Win98se or WinME. I surely hope all these things are going to be addressed when that new driver comes out in Fall 2003 or 2004. Too bad, when you call up there and ask, "What things will the new driver address?" You get the answer, "That's something we can't disclose unless you have a specific question." Well GREAT! Now I wonder...what if I am smarter to know a buggy thing about their coding that they don't? I don't know if it's going to be addressed, so it may never be fixed. The best feeling I ever got from reading about "issues addressed in this update" on other sites' driver or software updates, was the list of things you could be so happy you new were fixed (check out Propellerhead's site - they do an awesome job). It's kinda thorough and lets you know you're dealing with a company that doesn't hold back and tells the customer "this is what we did to make our driver better than that last one - we care about you".

I don't know of any other device I've owned that acted this quirky and made me scared when doing something important... $hit used to crash on a mouse/keyboard lag/freeze back when I had this Q10 on XP in the past! I know what I'm doing with this stuff too.


Oh well... I guess I can't have a perfect world, even if I do place a decent amount of cash towards an investment... waiting investment, for a better driver.

It's making me sick. Simply put. This Q10 shines in WinME and 98se. Why can't it shine with the modern times?

I promise this is my last chance with this. If the problems do not get addressed in a timely manner, I will go hunting for another interface. And yall don't have to hear from me again http://www.audioforums.com/forums/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Buyabeat.com (edited 11-15-2002).]

[Mr. Moon]

Have you tried contacting Aardvark support via phone? The following quote from your message makes it sound like you may have, but I'm not sure: "Too bad, when you call up there and ask, "What things will the new driver address?" You get the answer, "That's something we can't disclose unless you have a specific question.""

I contacted Aardvark a month or so ago (see "Aardvark DP 2496 problems " in this same forum 11-02-02) to try to resolve some issues that were caused by installing a new DP 2496 on my computer (which caused both my computer and myself to suffer the same symptoms you're reporting). I spoke with "Ben" and he was able to provide me with all the info and insight I needed to fix my problems. With his help the computer and DP 2496 have been working wonderfully together running WinXP Pro (with SP1) since the day I spoke with him.

Since then, I have called Aardvark once to discuss the progress on my issues, which Ben requested that I do. I called and asked for him by name, and he was on the phone within 20 seconds.

Other people in this forum have also found Ben to be very knowledgable and extremely helpful. I'd suggest that before giving up hope completely, you could try talking to him.

I know from my work as a sys admin, PCI and SCSI can be tough beasts to control, and every OS will try to manage them differently. I have seen posts in other forums about some of the problems people have been having with RAID and any/all audio hardware and software.

Ben will help....

-Mr. Moon

[joemix]

Have you read this thread? http://www.audioforums.com/forums/Forum4/HTML/003556.html

Email Ben Mullins at Aardvark bmullins@aardvark-pro.com. Make sure to tell him you have RAID, along with the symptoms. I have been in contact with Ben, and the last I heard was "It looks like we already had plans to pick up a system similar to yours, so we should be able to get to the bottom of this rather soon." this was on the 6th.

I have have learned over the years that Aardvark is a very casual organization. Maybe their programmers are having to learn how to port existing code to a Mac driver? Good luck Mac users! It seems like the only working Aardvarks you hear about are on relatively older non-RAID systems.
http://joemix.tripod.com


[This message has been edited by joemix (edited 11-15-2002).]

[Buyabeat.com]

Hey that was the thread I was referring to!

Anyway, I removed the RAID controller and put in a fresh Maxtor ata133 60GB drive with a fresh WinXP installation, then installed the Aardvark stuff, then Cubase SX. I got my project files transferred over and ......

SAME PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!! This is with a Non-Raid configuration. I'm not believing this! What on earth could it be? I was thinking this could be a problem with certain motherboards or chipsets, but it's happened with a few 845 chipset boards also.

Audio recording PC's cost so much cause you keep switching around to find the perfect match!

[joemix]

Do you have the GigaByte 8GE667 PRO (no onboard RAID)?

Out of all the configs I've tried, my Q10 only worked right on an old Athlon T-Bird machine, which I sold.

As soon as I find something else with software gain controls, I'm trading up. Although the new St Audio, and Terratec interfaces do look nice!

[Buyabeat.com]

The Gigabyte board I am using is the GA-8SG667

I've contacted Aardvark way too many times in the past and Ben M. or not, it doesn't matter, it's the compatibility issue that is killing each system I build.

I hate to get rid of this thing - it worked so well under the old OS's.

[lclc]

I know it may not "sound" exactly how I mean it, but here it goes:

Why do you have to use the "new" OS?

What's wrong with running Win98SE?

I've read many posts where people get pissed off because their system is running great with Win98SE and then with Win XP it doesn't.

Why change then? I run Win98Se, never even considered installing WinME. A cousin of mine has WinME and I can't spend 5 min on his computer.

I've heard good comments on XP, but then it was more from gamers.

I know manufacturers have to keep up and all, but my point is:

Why upgrade a system that serves its purpose?

LC

[Buyabeat.com]

It seems you didn't read the whole thread.
My whole reason for writing this thread is because I need XP for using FireWire so it can be fast and reliable. The older OS's are not desireable because of mediocre to unofficial support for the FireWire spec.

I am not simply one who "must have the latest and 'greatest'".

[joemix]

Cubase SX won't run on 98..

I installed 98, and it did seem to clear up some of the problems, however the PCI bus efficiency was still low.. Though Ben Mullins assures me that it's a relative reading and doesn't mean much. I question that simply because the RAM bandwidth benchmarks are so low when the Aardvark driver is enabled.. Where the hell is all the Bandwidth going??

My main concern is the intermittent loss of service, never mind the performance loss.

Restarting the Aark service every 5 minutes is annoying to say the least. I would like to see a new driver soon.

[lclc]

Ok, Buyabeat.com,

I'm sorry. I really didn't pay attention to the FireWire part.

I actually didn't really know what it was. Thank god you can find about any information on the Net.

LC

[Buyabeat.com]

No problem lclc!!

Ok guys, you are gonna kill me cause of my complaining. What I thought was a problem linked to the XP driver was something not related!! Or was it?? Either way, I fixed it.

My old projects that I was loading in had used some plugins that weren't yet installed on this PC yet. When the project was opening, it was looking for the old plugins. Some plugs weren't even being used (they were inactive) but were still crashing the system with a hard freeze, just as the same freezing symptoms were with my early XP Aardvark drivers were doing : small intermittent mouse freezing...gradually to a stop.

That's what made me think something was wrong... and maybe something still with the service is problematic. I don't ever remember Cubase SX crashing with migrating other old projects onto a new system with other sound interfaces. I clearly remember that the plugin was "none selected" and was blank, and inactive, where there used to be one. Then when I installed the plugin, then reopened the project, then the plug would end up the way it used to be.

So I guess you just have to install your multitracker, then the plugins (try to remember which ones you used, even the ones that were turned off!), and then you may open the project.

That could just be my motherboard and chipset when dealing with this particular problem... but it's fixed now, and I can't say enough about the speed and stability of this Gigabyte SIS648 8GE667 PRO!!!!!

That 1GB/s transfer rate between the Northbridge and Southbridge seems to shine and I can endlessly do so much. In addition, I can close my projects so much more quickly than the other boards I've tried. Things used to hang up when closing Reason, and then especially Cubase SX. Get on of these mobo's!!!! Definitely my choice for an audio only PC motherboard.

I haven't had any problems otherwise as far as service stopping.

With so many PC DAW's I've built I can honestly say that all the XP related driver issues I was experiencing with the Q10 was because of motherboard incompatibilities. You WILL NOT know if your board is semi-compatible or not until you try it. True, most manufacturers seem to claim their product will work on all motherboards, but Aardvark does not have every motherboard out there to test. Also, for a company to simply make a claim that a certain chipset will work with their product because one board with that chipset worked in their test, is inexuseable. No, Aardvark never claimed that, which is good. At least they do tell you the problem chipsets. Everyone said the SIS645 chipset wouldn't run audio for $hit so I got the SIS648 to try it.

Man am I happy. Every 845 chipset never worked right with that Q10.

I can now die a peaceful and productive man.

http://www.audioforums.com/forums/smile.gif

[EYazabell]

Hey buyabeat this has nothing to do with your topic. I have a few questions for you. You say you have built many DAWs. I building my first. I thinking dual CPU!! AMD specifically, fastest I can find. I would like your opinion!! If you would like to skip this forum my e-mail is shaneric@namastemusic.com. THX