New Audio PC

[Roddles]

Ok guys its the old "what pc should I build?"question.With all the new am2 etc Im a bit confused.I want power but stability.Anyone got the answer please?

[itsplayed]

In a single socket solution, intel Core2 Duo is it. In a dual socket setup, I think a lot depends on the DAW's main demand. What's your budget for the build(computer only)?

[Roddles]

the budget is not an issue

[itsplayed]

Well if budget is not an issue, I'd build a quad core system. Your choice then comes down to which processor to choose. The Xeon Woodcrest offers the most in sheer power, but if your running with lot's of virtual instruments and EFX, I'd go with the Opteron dualies.
Choosing to run with a Xeon Woodcrest system and DSP cards for EFX and perhaps something like the Muse Reserch Receptor is something to think about. You may also wish to run with two, more modest systems linked. What are your needs? What music app. and audio interface are you running with?

[Roddles]

I currently use 2 delta 1010s and wish to keep this setup.Ive heard that a dual core system is the way to go e.g.Asus P5b-E with an e6600 or 6700 cpu.Any help would be great thanx

[itsplayed]

I currently use 2 delta 1010s and wish to keep this setup.Ive heard that a dual core system is the way to go e.g.Asus P5b-E with an e6600 or 6700 cpu.Any help would be great thanx

A good choice.....your deltas will be fine with that setup.

[Bops2000]

Sweet.....

[swellis01]

Hey Roddles,
My new system is based on Core 2 duo and it runs very smooth. asus p5b deluxe, e6600, (overclocked to 3.2Ghz for the hell of it) 2 gig corsair pc6400 c4, Asus 7600GS fanless video card, Seasonic 500 watt silent PS, WD Raptor 150, and a second 500GB hard drive. All of this is wrapped up in a Thermaltake Aguila case. It's been a GREAT system. The core 2s allow me to record without any type of dropouts, even while surfing the net if I want to find some VST plugins at the same time.
Steve

[Roddles]

sounds exactly like what im after.How many tracks.plugins etc can you go with whilst retaining stability and performance?I usually run approx 20 or 30 tracks of audio and find my current system is starting to struggle.Having said that I do use plenty of soft synths,Reason and various plugins.your help is greatly appreciated

[swellis01]

Hey Roddles,
I've only had it going for about a month. I haven't yet run 20 to 30 tracks, but I do run soft synths and at least 18 tracks with real time effects. Not a hickup yet! Suffice to say, I think this rig is about as up to date without going overboard as you can get. I did a lot of research, and, for what I do with it, this system will not be slowing me down. I would definatley go with 2 gigs of GOOD Ram, at LEAST the Intel e6600 for the 4 MB cache, and at LEAST 2 drives, both the fastest you can get. With any P960 chipset based board, you can always upgrade later to a Quad Core (or more when they come out) as they are supported. As of yet, I have not had the need. I am thrilled with the WD Raptor 150. I have it setup for double booting to Win XP Pro. One boot for general use (Games, Internet, Playing Music, ETC) and one strickly for recording. The whole thing really works great. I do keep McAfee and Prevx1 running on the "General Use" boot, but no anti-virus/malware on the "DAW" boot. My other drive is a 500GB (for audio and video files only) WD500YS. Also very fast. I keep my paging file turned off so everthing is in memory.
While cases are really a more personable choice, I am very happy with the Thermaltake Aguila. Great options and 2 120mm fans. Get your case w/out a power supply so you can choose your own. Anything Seasonic has always been recommended in the reaserch it did for this system.

All this info is IMHO. Read other recommendations, then go for it. I'm glad I did. I think I landed around $1800 total. Really worth it!
Steve

[Roddles]

Hey thanx for the info.I think my pc will be almost identical to yours.Sounds like a rock solid performer.Cant think of anything that I would do different.You obviously researched all the options thoroughly.Do you have a sisoft score or anything like that for your system?

[swellis01]

I have never downloaded or used Sandra or any benchmarking tools. Out of curiosity, and to answer your question, I did download it and ran a few benchmarks. My results are listed below. The best benchmark of all, for me, is the fraction of a second loadtime it takes to bring up a bunch of files in my Audition sessions, running FX like full reverb, delay, etc. in realtime and never seeing a slowdown. Also, running a bunch of processes in Sonar and seeing my CPU load barely get off the bottom of the included CPU-load chart. Nevertheless, here is where my system stands from a Sandra perspective.
Disclaimer: Please realize I have my system OC'd, mainly to see how it would handle it. My e6600 is at a voltage of 1.3 volts, FSB set up at 401Mhz (up from 266) quad pumped to 1600Mhz, and the Cpu multiplyer set down (from 9x) to 8x for a CPU speed of 3.2Ghz (up from the stock 2.4Ghz). It is water cooled with a Thermaltake big water for the CPU. Runs cool at 45 to 50 degress C. The memory is Corsair TwinX DDR2 2GB (matched dual 1GB sticks) 6400c4. When using this memory, you have to up the voltage in the bios to 2.1Volts to run it at the rated speed of DDR800 at Cas4. This won't hurt the Ram as it was made for it. But, when you first put it in, the MB sets the initial voltage lower and the memory runs at DDR667 at the lower voltage.
the results don't mean much to me, maybe you can descipher them a bit better.

CPU:
Dhrystone ALU 28,610
Whetstone iSSE3 19,654

Memory:
Ram Bandwidth Int Buff'd iSSE2 6693MB/s
Ram Bandwidth Float Buff'd iSSE2 6709MB/s

Disc Read: Index 80MB/s

Hope that helps. The Asus 7600GS was a good deal as it has no fan (silent) but runs all video and plays games decently and has DVI out for the 20.1" VeiwSonic LCD. This was not meant to be a gaming system, though.
Steve

[swellis01]

I have never downloaded or used Sandra or any benchmarking tools. Out of curiosity, and to answer your question, I did download it and ran a few benchmarks. My results are listed below. The best benchmark of all, for me, is the fraction of a second loadtime it takes to bring up a bunch of files in my Audition sessions, running FX like full reverb, delay, etc. in realtime and never seeing a slowdown. Also, running a bunch of processes in Sonar and seeing my CPU load barely get off the bottom of the included CPU-load chart. Nevertheless, here is where my system stands from a Sandra perspective.
Disclaimer: Please realize I have my system OC'd, mainly to see how it would handle it. My e6600 is at a voltage of 1.3 volts, FSB set up at 401Mhz (up from 266) quad pumped to 1600Mhz, and the Cpu multiplyer set down (from 9x) to 8x for a CPU speed of 3.2Ghz (up from the stock 2.4Ghz). It is water cooled with a Thermaltake big water for the CPU. Runs cool at 45 to 50 degress C. The memory is Corsair TwinX DDR2 2GB (matched dual 1GB sticks) 6400c4. When using this memory, you have to up the voltage in the bios to 2.1Volts to run it at the rated speed of DDR800 at Cas4. This won't hurt the Ram as it was made for it. But, when you first put it in, the MB sets the initial voltage lower and the memory runs at DDR667 at the lower voltage.
the results don't mean much to me, maybe you can descipher them a bit better.

CPU:
Dhrystone ALU 28,610
Whetstone iSSE3 19,654

Memory:
Ram Bandwidth Int Buff'd iSSE2 6693MB/s
Ram Bandwidth Float Buff'd iSSE2 6709MB/s

Disc Read: Index 80MB/s

Hope that helps. The Asus 7600GS was a good deal as it has no fan (silent) but runs all video and plays games decently and has a DVI out for the Viewsonic 20.1" LCD. This was not meant to be a gaming system, though.
Steve

[Roddles]

thanx swellis01 so much help.Im pretty sure Im going to do almost exactly as you have.Cant wait to get the new rig.Its good to know that there are switched on people like yourself that have a high expectation of hardware performance and stability in this type of enviroment.Ill let you know how my system works out in about a month.Thanx again

[swellis01]

sounds great..BTW, I got most of my computer related equip. from both Newegg.com and ZipZoomFly.com. Great shipping, best prices, ...happy buying!!
Steve

[Roddles]

Hey fellas I bought an Antec sonata 2 case with power supply.Is this a good choice and can I use the Antec 450w power supply that came with the case?

[Roddles]

Sorry forgot to ask if it is a better option to run 32 bit or 64 bit.Dont wanna put 64 bit xp on if it is little gain and also will xp recognise more than 2gig ram?

[swellis01]

Sounds good roddles. You can definately use the 450W PS in that case. A lot of guys are using the sonata 2. Have you started choosing the other pieces yet? Motherboard? Processor? Memory?
BTW, as for 32 or 64 bit windows, I think the real question would be, are you going to use this ONLY for a 64 bit DAW like Sonar? Everyone I have read about who has this set up with 64bit windows XP really likes it. But it is dedicated for 64 bit programs. However, if you plan on mixing 64 bit programs with 32 bit, you may just want to stay 32 bit.
You will have many more program options with good stability if you stay 32bit. Another option is to set up your hard drive to dual-boot. That way, when you start your computer, you can have a choice to boot into xp 32 bit for regular stuff, or 64 bit for your dedicated 64 bit DAW.
Personally, I have a dual boot setup. But both my boot choices are 32 Bit XP Pro. One for general home stuff (internet, office, games, and I even have my DAW on it just to play around on it when I am not doing major recording), and the other one is Adobe Audition 1.5 and 2.0, and Sonar 5, and nothing else, except VST plugins or other recording dedicated programs.
So, you have a bunch of options.
How do you setup a dual boot? I googled it and found a step by step process that worked. It's not hard to do, but you don't want to mess it up!
good luck,
Steve
PS: your memory setup is going to be more dependant on your motherboard choice. I can't remember what max memory XP supports, but I have NO problems with 2 sticks of Corsair XMS twin c4 dual channel at 1 gig each (2 gigs total)

[Roddles]

As usual a very helpful reply from swellis01 thanx.I guess Ill just stay with 32bit and yeah maybe a dual boot setup.I was goig to run with 4 gig ram but maye 2 will be heaps anyway.Like I said I wasnt sure if that much(4gig) ram is recognised or is useful with my combination.Thanx so much again Steve

[itsplayed]

If you plan on using more than 4GB's of ram and/or a quad core processor XPx64 is the way to go. Otherwise, XP 32bit home or pro will be more than fine. Also, if you find that all manufacturers of the devices within your build supplies Winx64 drivers, it would be the way to go, regardless if you use or don't use more ram and/or that quad core.
If your unsure, you can still download a trial version of WinXPx64 here..........
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/facts/trial.mspx

Beware, it's a very large file, even with a DSL or cable modem, it will take some time to download. You can however, just order the trial CD.

[Roddles]

ok thanx Ill just work out the money side of it and the drivers issues and go from there.Once again thanx

[bruce110]

Thanks for this information.

[nobranddesign]

I have a 6600 clocked a 3.0 with kingston hyper x ram and my delta1010 works fantastic. It also has no issues with 8800 video card. I have also had huge success with multiple audio and video effect apps running at the same time. If your going to push more than three screens with effects (or similiarly huge process load) than two machines running max/msp or something similiar is your most powerfull and stable bet. I actually did a lot of research and two core 2 duos running in tandem over gigabit lan is faster than one quad core if you know how to set up the data flow and divide of the tasks. This will only stay true untill the quad cores pop up with a full single task allotment of L2 cache. Untill then, networking is the way if you really need the crazy live power. My two cents.

[nobranddesign]

I would also really recomend a little more juice than the 450W supply. If your going to run two delta's, and a video card, and burners, 450 may be right at the border line and if your running an 8800 like I am you NEED it. I burnt a supply up with two dual layer burners,videocard, audio card, three hard drives. That was a 450. I have a 650 Raidmax now that is absolutley awesome and I never have to worry about voltage......oh yeah btw I overclock very slightly. Not anything crazy and unstable but its fair to tell you when discussing power issues. Better safe than sorry on the power.
B

[Roddles]

Ok I think I will up the PS just to make sure its ok.What is the consensus on Which Brand/Type ram please.Going to get my 150 Raptor tomorrow woohoo.Getting closer to a final build

[itsplayed]

PSU: Seasonic USA
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161074

Ram: Go with a brand that has made it to the QVL list for the MoBo your using.

[nobranddesign]

I have used kingston ram on two studio systems and have had no problems to speak of in six years. I have thier Hyper X 1G 800 sticks now and I am completely happy with them and they have been rock solid well above 900. If your board company doesnt tell you the optimum brand and spec than I would definately be comfortable telling you to get Kingston. They have been a staple of standard and overclocking ram for years. Durable stuff. they can take higher voltages and clock speeds than what they are sold at pretty easily. I can speak from personal experience.

B

[Roddles]

Hi fellas.I just purchased my second hard drive which is a WD 500 gig 16mb sata 2.Any opinions on the quality and performance of this drive?Any bad experiences with noise or anything for that matter?My primary HDD is a WD 150 gig Raptor

[itsplayed]

I've always been a fan of WD drives, I still have a 10gb unit that must be going on ten+ years that still works well. What is the model number of your new drive?

[Roddles]

Wd5000aaks

[itsplayed]

The specs on that drive are certainly respectable. A quick search revealed some mixed reviews, but that's to be expected with any drive. Nothing negative stood out......It would seem that the majority of users and reviewers give it a thumbs up. Without field testing it myself, I'd say you've made a good choice.

[Roddles]

ok next question is what to use to cool this thing.Toms hardware say "danger den"is really good.Any recommendations boys?I dont think I will overclock to begin with but maybe in the future I will.Is the stock cpu cooler quiet enough and is it good enough to cool this pc properly?Cpu will prob be core 2 duo e6600 or 6800

[swellis01]

Hi again Roddles.

Glad to hear the new computer is coming together. You said you were looking for feedback on the WD 500 gig drive? Its been great for me. I use my WD 500YS sata as my "Audio/Video" storage drive. Multitrack throughput is NO problem with this drive! As for the Raptor you got, I use the same one as my main "windows/programs" drive. I set it up as a dual boot drive, allowing me to choose whether I want to boot into my normal windows XP "everyday" stuff or boot into my "DAW" side. This is a great way to provide security.

I know you said that you wouldn't want to overclock and that's great. But the Core2 duos seem to be made to run much faser than the speeds they ship at. Normally, the motherboard I got was shipped at a bus speed of 200Mhz. This would have made the CPU's FSB only 800 Mhz (quad pumped). As I mentioned before, I now have my bus speed set to 400Mhz, giving me a CPU Front Side bus that is quad pumped to 1600Mhz. (!) And, since the Ram is Double Data Rate (DDR2), it is runing at a ratio of 1:1, giving it a bus speed of 800Mhz, the speed it was designed for. I bought ram that would run normally at this speed (2 GB Corsair TwinX 800 C4) so it is very stable. I am essentially over-clocking the CPU but not that the ram. No problems. No lockups, no crashes, just been smooth sailing.
Important note:
Intel E6600 running at 3.2Ghz
CPU voltage is set up at 1.3volts. CPU Multiplier is 8x (down from 9x) bus speed is 401Mhz.
Ram is set at 2.1volts (recommended from manufacturer)

As for cooling, I was using a water cooler from Thermaltake, and it worked well. But after a while, I seemed to have had an evaporative problem and there was less and less coolant in the system, capitating the pump, even though it was supposed to be completly sealed from the factory. (No drips in the case) I replaced it with a Coolermaster Hyper TX Air cooler. It works great with my motherboard and was pretty cheap. Not a single degree hotter than the water cooling was, according to the onboard "ASUS Probe". Of course, I used ArticSilver5 for thermal paste. The CPU temp never seems to go above 50C, no matter what I throw at it. It varies between 42c and 48c. If this seems high compared to website benchmark results, remember that a lot of the temp has to do with where they are placing the temp probe for their tests. I am getting my readings off of the Asus Probe software that came with my P5B Deluxe.

I still didn't catch what motherboard you are using or what you might get. Any thoughts on that? It's probably the most important decision. Things I looked for:
1 Intel Core2 duo compatable, core2 quad compatable for future
2 Several Sata II ports, One external on back panel, should I decide to go that route for extra external storage.
3 FireWire port- internal and header for external- used for plugging in the Makie Onyx 1620 FW.
4 At least 3 PCI slots- one being used for my Delta 1010LT
5 Reputable market leader MB company, known for stability and Ram compatability.
6 Gigabit compatable Lan
7 DDR2 dual channel compatable.
And several other reasons pointed me to the Asus P5B deluxe.
Hope this all helps, keep us up to date!
Steve :D

[Roddles]

Hi Steve how are you?Well I think I would like to go with the P5b-E motherboard or maybe the plus or deluxe.Would it give me similar results If I copy your o/clocking parameters?I also might go with a more powerful video card simply because I like to dabble in some pretty high framerate games.I think this will be the only difference between our internals of these pcs(apart from maybe 4gig ram.If I use 4 gig ram will all the ram timings and settings still be the same as if I had used 2 gig ram?Thanx everyone for their help also
regards Rodney

[swellis01]

Man! Looking at the Asus P965 chipset based MB lineup can give you a headache!
I wish they just had one full list of core Motherboard componants, then would list seperatley the differences between one MB to another.
The P5B-E is a really nice board. That or the P5B-plus (no E on this one) is what I would go with. I am still happy with my deluxe too. I like the layout to have the three PCI slots grouped together (although the P5B deluxe has them split) and I wouldn't be into allocating another PCIe 16X to the IRQ since I wouldn't be doing any SLI video stuff. Single cards are so fast these days if you do do gaming as well on this board. It's a personal decision though. The "E" models weren't out yet when I bught my MB.

I'll tell you this, just about any of the boards on that list would work great. They are all pretty much the same with only one minor feature added or subtracted or a slightly different layout. All the core stuff is the same. It's the same way Cessna does their different models of corporate jets. One tiny thing creates a whole new model. What a pain. (a little off topic but just thought I would throw that in for any other pilots out there)
Let me know what you decide on and I'll help you with the bios setup.

As For Ram
4 gigs is a lot of ram. Not that I am against adding as much as possible, but for a 32bit machine, you may want to go with 2 gigs and see if that works for you. The 200 extra bucks could go towards a new 21" screen or something else. On my machine, I hardly ever get above 1 gig of ram use at any one time. This has a lot to do with how XP handles the ram. Tom's Hardware did an article comparing different amounts of ram on the same machine. They compared 512MB vs 1 Gig vs 2Gig vs 4 Gig and found that 2 gigs was the sweet spot. 4gigs did not slow them down but it just never got used. Most of the time the 1 gig version was just fine but the 2 gig version got just a hair faster results in the tests. The 4 gigs did nothing beneficial for their tests. I know their tests included both heavy duty
3D games and synthetic apps, as they usually do. I'll see if I can find that article if you are interested.
Steve

[Roddles]

Ok Steve then I will go with the 2 gigs of ram.I just thought that I would need 4 gigs because I might use quite a lot of plugins.I am going to use an e6700 cpu.Does a 6600 cpu require different ram settings than a 6700cpu?Thanx for your great help

[swellis01]

Nope,
It would be exactly the same settings because they are exactly the same CPU except for base speed and price. The 6600 runs at a base clock speed of 2.4Ghz, and costs $232 at Zip Zoom Fly while the 6700 runs at 2.66Ghz and is $334 at zip zoom fly. That's the only difference between the two. 260 Mhz and 102 bucks.

I was just thinking of something and you probably wrote it before, but what software do you use (want to use) for recording?
When you said that you will be using a whole list of plugins at once, do you mean after the orignal signal has been recorded dry and you are applying each plugin one at a time to add effects? Or do you mean you want to use (listen too) the plugins as you monitor (non-destructive) the signal as it is being recorded dry? Or do you mean you will be applying several plugins into the original recorded signal while it is being recorded? (Destructive, and not generly recommended)

When I am recording, I usually record dry signal, (or maybe some light compression from the RNC) then edit it as needed using Adobe audition's effects or various VST plugins one at a time, undoing each change untill I get the right sound. I rarley use several effects plugins while recording. This might negativly effect the original signal and I won't be able to change it later without rerecording. Guess I am just thinking out loud. (metephorically obviously)
Not that the system you are building will slow you down in any respect, I was just thinking about it.
Steve

[Roddles]

Hi Steve.Well I currently use Sonar 5 and rewire Reason into the job at hand.Then I might add various Waves plugins on different tracks(Non destructive).With my old system(basically an AMD XP 2600 and 1 gig ram)I'm using anywhere between 40% and 80% cpu and getting the ocassional dropout.Hope it is a vast improvement with the new pc.

[Roddles]

Hey guys can someone advise the settings for overclocking and ram settings etc as I have never done this before.I usually play it safe but from what you guys are saying it would seem that the cpus are run at a pretty soft setting.Thanks for the help once again.I will be using the 6700 cpu with 2 gig pc 6400 ram.

[swellis01]

Hey Roddles,
Glad to see you're at this point.
Okay, I need more info. What is the exact model number of your memory?
What is the exact model number of you Motherboard?

Your E6700 comes with a stock speed of 2.67Ghz. That's a FSB of 266 and a muliplier of 10. (266mhz x 10 = 2660mhz or 2.67 Ghz)
This can easily go to 3.2Ghz, which is where I have my 6600, and yours may go higher, but this would be an easy overclock with noticable speed differences, especially in Plugin processing.
Intel has locked the multiplier for the e6700 cpu from going up to a higher value, so you can't just make the 10 a 12. You can go down in the multiplyer and UP with the Front Side Buss speed however. This is the way most people are overclocking the core2duos.

To start, you may want to google "overclock e6700" to get some info. I did just now and came up with this: http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/core2duo_e6700/18.html
Try to find these values in the BIOS, usually unser the Advaced tab:

VCore (CPU's voltage) this must go up to increase CPU speed. Too high will burn up your processor. But a value around 1.3Volts should be sufficiently low as to not degrade your CPU but high enough to provide the voltage necessary to overclock. By the way, I hope you have a decent cooler strapped to your processor. Here is a great review on a great air cooler: http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2981

Change your CPU's multiplyer down to 8 (from the stock number of 10). and change your Front Side Buss up to 401Mhz (from the stock number of 266). You can probably go higher with an e6700, but a core 2 duo at 3.2 Ghz is nothing to sneez at. Faster than an e6800 extreme!

You will also have to make changes in your memory settings for this overclock to work, but I can not give any advice on that until I know your memory maker, stock timing speeds (Cas3? Cas4?) and manufacturer approved memory voltage.
Again, please state Mother board model. If it is simular to mine, I can give you my exact settings.
Go back online and google "CPUZ" for a free, very small program that will help with all this.
Talk to ya later,
Steve

[Monkey Mouse]

I might as well chime in since I do have pics of my new DAW PC (with silent treatment) for all to see.

http://home.comcast.net/~phuryk/Pc1.jpg

It is an Antec Sonata 2 case with Silent PCS sound deadening kit fully installed. I also put in the big Zalman CPU cooler and NB heatsink (it was a noisy little fan). It is a gigabyte MO for S939 with an A64 4400+ processor and 2GB DDR400 RAM. It also has a decent (a 6200) videocard with no fans.

It runs XP Pro SP2 with Live 6.0.7 and a whole bunch of soft synths not to mention the outboard gear. Soundcard is a Delta 1010 (for now). WD 160gb and 250gb HDs with an external 4 bay FW box.

While it is not the fastest - the new Intels are certainly faster, it is a solid performer (well tweaked) that cost under $1,500 and took 3 hours to build and setup.

This happens to be the 3rd DAW I have built over the last 7 years.

[swellis01]

Looks pretty cool MM, do the foam blocks in the front hard drive bays block any air from coming in from the front fan? Just Curious.

[Monkey Mouse]

Looks pretty cool MM, do the foam blocks in the front hard drive bays block any air from coming in from the front fan? Just Curious.

If you are using a front fan, yes for a portion of the fan's airflow - but I am not so its not an issue.

[Roddles]

Hi Swellis.My motherboard is an Asus P5B Deluxe with wifi and I bought an e6700 cpu.Pick up the ram,video card and burners next week then should be ready to rock and roll.Going with 2 gig ram and not sure what video card yet.

[swellis01]

Great choices! Don't forget a better cooler for your cpu. As for video, I went with a 7600GS. Half-life 2 looks great on it (not to mention all the daw stuff) and it is fanless. (silent)

[Roddles]

Hey Swellis how are you?Cooler Thermaltake big typhoon VX.Want to get best ram but not sure what to get.I know that the qvl list is there for the motherboard but I want to get best performance ram and there are so many choices apart from QVL.What are your thoughts guys?

[itsplayed]

It would be tough to beat this deal and it's on the QVL list....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148069

Sorry, I just realized that your down under and I'm not sure of Neweggs international shipping policies.

[Roddles]

hey thanx for helping anyway itsplayed.So are you saying that this ram is good for high performance and for overclocked systems?

[itsplayed]

Your welcome Roddles......I'm not a fan of overclocking systems, but if that's your thing than I'd say Crucial(micron) Ballistix is more than capable....Here's a link to a review
http://www.pcfrags.com/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=79
you can have a look at it to see if there's any mention of overclocking and if it fits the bill. I haven't read the whole thing myself, but I know the reputation of Crucial and I've used them in the past on my own systems and on many builds for others....very stable without issues and that's good enough in my book.

Here's an overclockers review I found....
http://www.cluboc.net/reviews/memory/crucial/ballistix_tracer_pc2_8500/index.asp

[swellis01]

Great find by itsplayed! Newegg comes through again! Those are great timings for 2 gigs. I'll gladly second his recomendation! And a big Yes on both counts, Roddles, to answer your question. And the Thermaltake big typhoon VX looks to be a great cooler. Nice choice!

FTR, I'm not a big fan of overclocking either, but the core2duos are different. Its like buying a Ferrari with 12 inch rims! Just a minor little change and whamo! A whole new beast!

[Roddles]

Well thanx again fellas.Ill purchase the ram,burners and video card next week and that should just about do it.Do you guys use a floppy to install win xp pro or can you just install the sata drivers straight from the cd if you have xp pro with service pack 2.I have never built a system with sata drives before so I am a little bit inexperienced with the whole deal.A couple more questions:Should I get burners that are sata or should i get ide burners?Do I plug the main sata drive in sata 1 on m/board and then 2nd sata drive in sata 2 on motherboard?

[swellis01]

All good questions.

1) You don't use a floppy to install XP. It comes as a CD rom. Once you have everything plugged in and setup, put the cd in the cd rom and your bios will recognise it. Windows will start from there. But do number 2 first.

2) There are basic Sata drivers already loaded in the bios allowing you to run your sata cd rom/hard drives. However it's good practice to load and install the newest drivers that come on the CD rom enclosed with the MB right away. Do this first. Then install Win xp. It sounds like you have built a system before. You can treat sata like ide, but you don't need to use those MASTER/SLAVE/CS jumpers anymore.
NOTE: I would still use ide cd roms. The available throughput of the sata bus is higher but the read/write of the best cd roms can't use it. They still can't use the full bandwidth availability of ATA133 Eide. It really is much easier the use eide cd roms for initial system building. One option would be (if you are going to use more than one cd rom) is to make one of them ide, for initial system build, (don't forget the MASTER jumper) and then add another later as a sata. Although I don't think you will find much difference between the two in terms of how long you sit and wait for your new cd to burn. (if they are otherwise comparable drives will the same buffers and speeds) You could buy a cheapo ide cd rom from walmart for your build and installation, then replace it once everything is running with a mega money sata burner later.
3) I'm not sure if it matters where you plug in your hard drives. Your bios will just search for your OS startup files on all used sata ports. I put my Raptor 150 on Sata 1. My WD500Y is on Sata 2. I mean, why not. If it doesn't matter for the MB, at least I know where they are. Make it as easy as possible.

I think that's all your questions. Keep 'em coming!
Steve

[Roddles]

Sorry Swellis but let me clarify what I meant.I have built plenty of systems before but never a SATA drive system and what I was referring to were the installation of the sata drivers off win xp pro without service pack 2.I had read threads where people were claiming that there had to be sata drivers installed from a floppy or something.Sorry for not being clear.So am I to understand that I can load the sata drivers from the motherboard cd before winxp pro is installed.I will be putting on a new version ox xp pro with service pack 2.Thanx again Steve

[swellis01]

wasn't trying to be condescending-sorry if it sounded that way. My cd-rom is ide so it went in without a hitch. My drives, both sata, were also immediately recognized. I also loaded win xp pro sp2. All was smooth with the p5b deluxe.

[Roddles]

hey swellis dont worry.I would doubt you would ever be condescending.My wording of my questions was silly.I now have all the parts to get going so I have put it all together and fired it up.Just need to know how to squeeze the max out of this thing with reliability.Not sure what to do but will try some things.First is the fsb multiplier as the cpu is locked at a maximum of 10.I'll try dropping that to 9 and raising the fsb up to see what happens.What do I have to do with memory timings?

[swellis01]

If you can wait till Wed or Thursday, I'll be back home then. I can offer you some suggestions when I have the bios in front of me. I take it your sata drives, HDs and Cds, all started up smoothly? What did you get for video? Did you get the corsair ram?
I would try upping your fsb up to about 375 (1500 quad pumped) with a multiplier of 9. This would make your CPU run at 3.37Ghz. 401 with a multiplier of 8 is where i am. 3.2Ghz. You could try that setting as well for a safety starting point. That should be an easy overclock. Personally, anything over 3Ghz on a core2duo is great! Remember to set your CPU voltage to around 1.3v or just a hair over to handle the overclock. Check in with asus probe once in a while to check you CPU temp. all is OK under 60C.
If you are having problems it is most likely your ram settings. You will defiantly have to up the ram voltage too. I am not sure what your ram manufacturer allows, but mine allowed me to set it at 2.1volts, much higher than stock board settings, but then it was made for this voltage. You also have to set the ram timing settings from auto to manual. That way you can be sure your ram is at the timings you bought it for. Mine is at 4-4-4-12. I think you were looking at cas3 ram (awesome!). It would be here that you can check to see if you are running at those timings. Should be specified on your ram specs.
Congrats on the new system. I'll give you more detailed settings when I get home
Remember to download CPUZ from http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php and install (free). It will really help to make sure you are actually running everything at the correct settings.
Steve

[Roddles]

Hi Swellis.All the drives are running great and I am using a ge force 8500gt 512mg video card.Got my two delta 1010s running and evrything looks good except Im not sure about what speed the cpu is running at.I think it is at about 2880mhz but when I go to msinfo32 It shows two cpus at 3.2gig.havent touched anything except for the numbers of multiplier at 9x320.If I go anymore than 320 my memory speed goes higher than 800mhz which it is rated at.It is Cheap ddr 2 6400 800 mhz memory.Maybe you would know where its at and if I am doing things right or not.

[swellis01]

If you look in the memory settings, you'll find a setting that has a ratio. This is the ratio of ram bus speed to fsb speed. If I remember right, its stock setting might be something like 2:1? Maybe 1:2? Can't remember. Anyway, Try raising the CPU's fsb speed up from 320 to 400, then change your ram speed to fsb ratio to 1:1, your ram will now continue to run at its rated speed of 400 (which is DDR800). Again, check where your voltage is for the ram and make sure it is set to the value advertised for your ram.
Now your CPU multiplier is currently at 9. 9X400=3600 or 3.6Ghz. It's very likely that your e6700 will run smoothly at this speed, but I probably wouldn't go any further. Just to say it again, 8X400 or 3.2Ghz is where I am and it works great with my e6600.
Also, that cpuid site for cpuz is a reliable way to get information on exactly where your cpu/memory speeds and voltages are. Give it a try.
Try to find the ram speed to fsb ratio and reset it to 1:1. Then boost that CPU fsb up to 400. Should work! Let me know. Again, I am still out on the road, back Wed. My plane is currently broken so we are going to the Cubs/Marlins game here in Chicago. see ya! Steve

[swellis01]

OK, I'm home so here it goes. Basic overclocking settings for the P5B (Deluxe, WiFi, or otherwise) Bios is version 1101, which is still current today.
Please disregard my previous message about setting the fsb to Dram ratio. I couldn't find it in my bios so I think it just remains at 1:1.

1) Restart, hit DEL to get into bios. Once in bios, check its version by looking under tab: MAIN: System info. Should say: "AMI BIOS Version 1101, Build date 3-9-07"

2) Next, go to Tab: "Advanced", then "Jumper free Configuration"

a) AI Tuning: Manual
b) CPU Freq.: 400
c) Dram Freq: 800
d) PCI Ex. Freq: Auto
e) PCI Clock Synch: Auto
f) Spread Spectrum: Auto
g) Memory Voltage: 2.1V for mine (May be lower for your Ram. Use only your ram manufacturer's specs.)
h) CPU VCore voltage: 1.3250V
I) FSB term. Voltage: Auto
j) NB VCore, SB VCore, ICH to Chip set Voltage: All Auto

3) Next, go to Tab: "Advanced", then "CPU Configuration"

a) Modify Ratio: Enabled
Ratio Setting :8
b) C1E Support: Enabled
c) Max CPUID: Disabled
d) Vanderpoel : Enabled
e) CPU TM: Enabled
f) Execute Disable Bit: Enabled
g) PECI: Disabled

4) Next, go to Tab: "Advanced", then "Chip set", then "North bridge Config"

a) Memory Remap: Disable
b) Config Dram Timing by Speed: Disabled
Cas Lat: 4
Ras to Cas Delay: 4
Ras Precharge: 4
Ras Activate: 12
Write Recovery: 6
Dram TRFC: 42
Dram TRRD: 10
Write to Read Delay: 10
Read to Precharge :10
Write to precharge: 11
Static Read: Auto
These are my bios settings that I am happy with.

Most other bios settings were the default ones, except for things like my boot preferences and fan speed settings.
If anyone reading this sees something that could be changed for the better, please respond. Otherwise, this has been very stable and keeps my e6600 at 3.2Ghz.
Hope this helps, Steve

[Roddles]

Thanx for that steve.I ll try it in a day or two and let you know.

[Roddles]

Sorry took so long to get back to those concerned.Pc is running at an easy 3.2gig with minimal overclocking.Actually tried to run at 4.0 gig and it ran for a short while.Still havent tried your settings yet Steve but I will let you know.A reference though:Previously with my amd xp 2200 rig I managed to get one song cranking around the 70% cpu load and with this new setup I have yet to see the cpu work over 5 or 6%.Im stoked now and thanx for the help from everyone.

[swellis01]

Glad to see you're crankin away. Judging from the views of this thread, it seemed to have helped more than one person. Your PC should run well for many years. Enjoy and happy recording. Write back with any issues.
Steve

[Roddles]

Well Im back and happy to say that I have no pc issues at all.I thoroughly recommend the setup that I have and pretty much anything that SWELLIS has to recommend or itsplayed.They have helped me so much and I now have a rock solid performer.Thanx for the help fellas

[Kovich]

This is a fantastic thread - I'm getting a new job soon and will be spending my introductory bonus on a new computer! Will probably go with swellis's spec.

Couple questions:

Does anyone know if there's any import duty on US computer component imports to the UK? Would be nice to be able to use the strong pound sterling to get good value!

Have you measured the power consumption of your systems at load/when idle? Would be really interesting to compare with other PCs... (you'd probably have to use something like this: http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=38343&doy=26m7#overview )

Cheers