Song tutorials?

[marcuslee]

I've been looking all over the web for tutorials (free ones) that describe how to create songs. Surprisingly, there isn't much out there ... in my opinion. Yeah, I see stuff for editing and production tips, but I would like to see more.

These forums do better than many I have looked at, especially your Critque my song section. My suggestion might work just fine on that forum page.

I would like to see someone post a song and detailed instructions on how to recreate that song or that type of sound. In the thread we can discuss how the melodies were derived, the harmonies, what instruments were chosen, what effects were applied, etc....

If this sounds like a good idea ... is anyone interested in starting one?

Mark

[howie15]

Maybe I'm being cynical...but I hope this site/room doesn't catch on too much. I went to one of these places. What was it? Oh yeah, college and the $88,000 I spent on two degrees teaching me beginning to advanced music theory, performance, engineering, producing, conducting, history, professional ethics, instrumental techniques, educational psychology, business, networking and all the other fun stuff. Sorry, it's not a Martha Stewart "do it yourself kit". If you want to make a song you have to have a bit of music knowledge or production knowledge. As much as the glamorous Hollywood ET folks would have you believe, not everyone can make "a song". Many people can perform a song....not many can make one. that's the key....and to the tune of about 3 points I might add.

Howie J

[itsplayed]

Mark, let me ask this of you....Are you a musician? Do you play an instrument? If not, take up the piano(get a good teacher) and start listening to music as a musician would....believe me, you will start to hear music differently...more analytically. From there, you will be on your way to music creation as well......good or bad.

[marcuslee]

First of all, I am a musician. Maybe not as good as some of you, but I have played for several years (more than 10).

Second, to some degree I do listen to music how "itsplayed" described it, and I have done some music creation. I'll post some examples in the future.

True, I haven't studied at a college all those things "howie15" mentioned, but I am also not a professional. I would hope that only one of two people would pay that much money to study those things. One, someone who intends to be a professional (as a career) or someone with so much money (aka rich) that they can blow thousands on a hobby.

However, I do have a working understanding of music. I can read music, treble and bass clef. I know enough about rythum to make a decent drum loop. I know basic chord theory along with chord progressions. I know how to harmonize a melody (at least with simple harmony).

I am looking for more, though. I like to find new rythums that I wouldn't have created without assistance. I have done some self-study into classical counterpoint, and when I am harmonizing a melody, I try different chords, etc...

From what I have seen of these forums, they are for everyone. Here is a quote from the main page:

"All users are welcome whether you are a full time professional, a working part time project studio owner or the casual user making music on your computer at home for your own enjoyment."

Once again, those were not my words!

I'm not asking for a Martha "do-it-yourself" kit. But, I think it would be interesting to analyse a song from both the Professional's viewpoint as well as the Amateur's.

Let me quote from the main page again:

"Basically, anyone making sounds and music in the computer or digital environment can benefit, and have a good time by LEARNING and CONTRIBUTING!" (I added the caps!)

What could be more interesting than someone making a statement about a song to this effect: "The opening melody is eight measures long. The first four measures make up a musical phrase which in some form or another is repeated through out the song ... "?

To me what is boring is someone posting a song and people respond to it with a simple "I don't like it." Or, they give a few things they don't like about it but don't suggest anything to make it better.

So, I ask again, is anyone interested?

Mark

[Audiodude]

Many (long) books have been written on the topic of how to write and produce better songs. It takes a much more skilled teacher than me to explain this sort of thing well. There's no forumla you can learn to make great songs, no magic bullet that will make your tracks shine. It's a combination of God-given talent, skill, and lots of work refining your craft that produce great music.

Now, having said all that, there are ways we can all learn from each other. That's why this forum exists. While I don't think that a "here's how to create a great song" tutorial is practical or even possible, we can all benefit from hearing about how other people go through the process. If this is something you want to tackle, I'll be more than happy to post it here.

[sabianq]

hey, hey, now,

i went to school with some very talented people that are now famous,
some of the most technical people in my school were serious music students, Learning theory (like Howie said) and writing songs for home work, the most talented people didn't really seem to care all that much and are now very famous

but in order to really write a song, (yes it does help to have the 80,000 dollar technical background,) one also needs to possess a certain "gumption".
honestly, the best talent i have heard were the homeless, guitar playing, vagabond's just trying to make a buck for the bus to .. wherever.
these people would play the most beautiful music under the trees in Boulder (near pearl street) and a good many of them (not including the students now) had not a music class in their whole life.

from my personal experience, the best way to "learn how to make music" is to pick up a guitar and start playing random notes and start singing random stuff.

(A lot, all of the time, never put down your guitar)


welcome

[marcuslee]

Sabianq and Audiodude, thank you for your kind words.

I realize that making music is something that can't just be explained in a simple tutorial. Having tinkered here and there myself, I know there is no magic bullet or magic pill. I think my suggestion was just misunderstood by some. How some people go through the process of making a song is a good way to word what I was suggesting.

Here are a couple of songs I have done. I mentioned earlier that I would post them. I'll also post them on the proper page.

http://www.geocities.com/msl_007/medivalspring.mp3

http://www.geocities.com/msl_007/alifesjourney.mp3


Mark

[howie15]

I have to jump back in here for a couple reasons. I do have to apologize for my previous post. As most here know, I'm usually not that brash. It was a bad night for reasons separate from here + a few beers, that's what came out. I apologize if it came across as a personal attack. Didn't mean it to be. Hopefully you can believe that.

To expound on any merit the statement did have, I would say that out of all the training I have had, one rule stands firm. Learn the rules so you can break them. Some of the greatest creative ideas came from totally changing "the standard" So it creates kind of a paradox. Do we create something that is usual? i.e. standard song form with verse, bridge, choruses, etc? Sonata Allegro form that the classical period beat to death? Rodeau? Free composed? Serialism? Blues? What? When I took composition my teacher gave us very strict limits on both meldoy and harmony and then started opening it up. I have a hard time beginning pieces, but when I decide that it's going to be an ambient/chill piece with mostly synth pads and one lead, or a hymn for brass quintet; that gives me parameters to work with and not just "create music". The brain can't handle that.

I hope the fact that even someone like myself with the background has a hard time coming up with a "song" gives some comfort. Somedays it just all jumps in your head and you don't know why and other days you couldn't hear a note to save your life. It's what makes music what it is.

Howie J.

[marcuslee]

Learn the rules so you can break them. Some of the greatest creative ideas came from totally changing "the standard" So it creates kind of a paradox.

Thanks for the apology.

I know enough of the rules to know what you are talking about. As mentioned earlier, I'm not looking for an easy way out, just a little more indepth analysis.

Mark :D

[spam]

howie15 wrote:
It was a bad night for reasons separate from here + a few beers, that's what came out.
All that work on your website shouldn't be that frustrating.;)

[howie15]

I wish that is what made it a frustrating night. Maybe the fact that I wasn't working on it.:(

Howie J

[vulcan_dc]

http://www.geocities.com/msl_007/medivalspring.mp3

http://www.geocities.com/msl_007/alifesjourney.mp3


Mark

linky, no worky...

[marcuslee]

linky, no worky...

Yeah, I know the link doesn't work. You may have to Right Click and choose Save Target As. (That did work for me!)

Mark

[jmail]

Sounds to me that what you want is for someone to do something along the lines of:

"I wrote this song while trying to figure out this other song. But since I kept screwing it up, I kept repeating the one section I was having the difficulty with. Next thing I knew, I had a verse of a song on the guitar. The wife comes by and says 'What're you playing? That's pretty.' and proceeds to have a verse of lyrics just tumble out onto the paper. We had to work quite a bit harder for the chorus and 2nd verse lyrics, but other than that, the song basically wrote itself."... ??

But to expound upon it and describe their recording of it and the reason/theory (or lack of, in my case... lol) for the different parts, along with the actual recording technique?

[marcuslee]

Sounds to me that what you want is for someone to do something along the lines of:

"I wrote this song while trying to figure out this other song. But since I kept screwing it up, I kept repeating the one section I was having the difficulty with. Next thing I knew, I had a verse of a song on the guitar. The wife comes by and says 'What're you playing? That's pretty.' and proceeds to have a verse of lyrics just tumble out onto the paper. We had to work quite a bit harder for the chorus and 2nd verse lyrics, but other than that, the song basically wrote itself."... ??

But to expound upon it and describe their recording of it and the reason/theory (or lack of, in my case... lol) for the different parts, along with the actual recording technique?

I'm sorry, but I don't know if I follow you all the way. I know there are times we come up with something that doesn't make logical sense. IOW, "I don't know how I came up with that." But, I also know there are times when someone has an idea for a song and takes logical steps to achieve his idea. That's basically what I was asking for.

For example, there is a scene that someone wants to add music to. How does he choose the melodies? Are they short (stacattos)? Are they long and expressive? Do they use few notes? Do they span the spectrum of the chromatic scale? And, whatever the melody is ... was there a reason you chose that melody over one entirely different?

And, melody is just one discussion point!

Mark

[jmail]

... That's basically what I was asking for...
That's what I meant. The story above is how one of our (my wife & I) songs "happened"...