Treating my room

[brandonwhite]

I'm 19 years old and I'm poor.
I record in my bedroom.
I know absolutely nothing about treating the acoustics of a room for recording.
Anybody care to give me the basics?
It would be much appreciated.

[87PRS]

Hi Brandon, welcome to the audioforums! I recorded in a bedroom starting off, many years ago 2 trackin' and nowadays there is a lot more you can do, there are forums to check out specific design treatments for your room dimensions, aurelex, diffusers lotsa products out there...depending on your situation, what you are recording with and desired outcome. Someone will chime in here and give you more info. check out this forum lotsa good stuff
http://www.homerecording.com

[tech1]

There are 2 kinds of acoustic treatments: absorbtion and diffusion. Absorbtion materials absorb sound waves so they do not reflect, while diffusors scatter waves so they destructively interfere with each other. Both are used in treating a room. If you are looking for "low-cost" solutions, then I suggest the following for diffusors:
- egg cartons
- asymmetrical pieces of styrofoam

...and for absorbers:
- large blakets hung over a wall
- carpeting

Cement walls, hardwood floors, low ceilings, and parallel walls need to be dealt with somehow. You may be able to get a good, dry recording by setting up some chairs, draping a carpet over it, and setting up your mic inside. You'll likely have to add reverb later, but you hould be able to at least isolate some nasty reflections.

[87PRS]

There are 2 kinds of acoustic treatments: absorbtion and diffusion. Absorbtion materials absorb sound waves so they do not reflect, while diffusors scatter waves so they destructively interfere with each other. Both are used in treating a room. If you are looking for "low-cost" solutions, then I suggest the following for diffusors:
- egg cartons
- asymmetrical pieces of styrofoam

...and for absorbers:
- large blakets hung over a wall
- carpeting

Cement walls, hardwood floors, low ceilings, and parallel walls need to be dealt with somehow. You may be able to get a good, dry recording by setting up some chairs, draping a carpet over it, and setting up your mic inside. You'll likely have to add reverb later, but you hould be able to at least isolate some nasty reflections.

This reminded me of a time when I took all the matresses off the beds (guestroom), including box springs and made a (what i thought was ) soundproof room, using the box springs for overhead, and actual mattresses for sidewalls LOL common gotta laugh...especially when it all collapsed on me:o ...then I took the matresses and made the "guitar tunnel" put the amp at one end of the boxed in mattresses with a mic and recorded....actually pretty dead inside of there...and so was born in the early 80's Fatt Mattress Studio:D ...remember you're only limited by your creative ideas.

[brandonwhite]

Is it a good idea to record in a dead room and add the desired reverb later?
I covered all of my walls and my ceiling with big thick quilts. It sounds really dry in there.

[tech1]

It's great if your room sounds bad. Not so good if the room has a good sound already. Let your ears be the judge.

[brandonwhite]

So the key is to deaden the natural reverb as much as possible?

[sabianq]

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html


uhh..
no offense tech1 but setting up a room according your instructions will leave Brandon with a lot of headaches and as Bops says below, a serious fire hazards.

Stay away from blankets and egg crates, the reason you treat a room is so your microphones will record your instruments as close to their response curves as possible. by just "willy nilly" throwing up blankets, you can actually entice the treble, mid-range and bass response to peak and dip by as much as 20 db (+- 4 times in loudness) and to top that off, the bass will lose integrity. Frequency response errors of this magnitude are clearly a problem.

you have to read this article.
Ethan Winer has taken the time to actually write this all down, has a great ear and has some very inexpensive solutions that will help out.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

[Bops2000]

I suggest the following for diffusors:
- egg cartons
- asymmetrical pieces of styrofoam

...and for absorbers:
- large blakets hung over a wall
- carpeting

.
Egg cartons acoustically will do nothing, but create a fire hazard.
I would suggest get maybe two 'moving van' blankets, try one at a time Hang one on the wall opposite the monitors first then listen for a few days. if you need more, try one hung behind the monitors. you do not want the room too dead. you want some 'bounce' in the room....

[brandonwhite]

Anybody seen any cheap sound diffusers out there?
They all seem to be 300 dollars for a couple square feet.:eek:

[sabianq]

I take it you didnt read the article I posted.
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
you can build one for the cost of wood.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/diffuser2.jpg


The simplest type of diffusor is one or more sheets of plywood attached to a wall at a slight angle, to prevent sound from bouncing repeatedly between the same two walls. Alternatively, the plywood can be bent into a curved shape, though that is more difficult to install. In truth, this is really a deflector, not a diffuser, as described in more detail below. However, a deflector is sufficient to avoid flutter echoes between parallel surfaces.

Other styles of diffusers, such as the quadratic, can be approximated by use of a bookcase filled with books of different sizes and shapes in a symmetrical left and right pattern.

[87PRS]

I built the bass trapps on Mr Winers site 4 years ago, and they have served me well, the building instructions were very simple, just getting the materials together and I ended up with 4 2X8X4" trapps filled(stuffed) with rigid fiberglass, silicone sealed/caulked, glued and screwed, plus made a mid/high trap that was listed, this also was a 2X8X2" design with many 2" holes drilled in surface, laid over rigid fiberglass with cloth layed on top of the glass to keep it from leaking into the environment...all from J Sayers and E Winers homemade design elements....where do you think "Real Trapps" originated?

Brandon if you have any PA gear (large speakers) stick 'em in the corners of your room, they'll help in the corner where bass waves accumulate...egg cartons went out in 1967, one good thick moving blanket (like Bops sez) stratigecally placed can do wonders...don't kill the room...buying diffusors, and all for $300 a pop won't do the job...and take the time if you haven't already, and read all the link sabianq posted. Good luck

[passerby3141]

I record in an attic, no parallel walls. If you have access to one you could check it out. If I remember correctly, the original Motown studios were in an attic, and they used speakers for bass drum and bass amp mics (or was that the Beatles?)

[terry]

As far as a cheep diffuser goes you can use any 4 x 8 hard/cheep wood and spray on some ceiling popcorn. That will scatter the sound waves in hundreds of directions

[Unclenny]

Getting ready to build a real no-kidding-around studio in the garage as we expand the general living quarters. I'll have the chance to start from scratch and employ all of the above excellent feedback.
But, you know, over my many years of two tracking, four tracking, and eventually protools I have recorded in some odd spaces. Maybe my best space ever was a tiled bathroom in an effeciency apartment that I found myself in after that first divorce....just me, my Martin and an old Teac cassete recorder. There was something special about that space.
Seriously, though, all of those weird spaces taught me alot about mic placement, etc.


http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=4887954&q=hi

[EliasGwinn]

Some modifications to old DIY standards:

Carpet - cut 24" strips (length = height of wall). Vertically fasten (nail, screw) one (long) side of the strip to the wall. Fasten other side about 20-16" away so that the carpet forms a semi-cylinder running up the wall. Vary widths and cylinder diameter for each one.

Eggcrate - keep this off your walls. Cut it up and put it under your monitors and under anything else vibrating. Monitors (speakers) will resonate whatever they're sitting on, causing certain frequencies to really get going.

Wood - use pieces of odd shapes and varying sizes to create odd geometries. This is a trial-and-error process...you really have to listen to the effects (although this is true for everything...and it REALLY is absolutely essential to listen carefully to how you're affecting the sound....there is no 'right answer' for all rooms).

If worse comes to worse, check these guys out....amazing price for a good product: http://www.gikacoustics.com/

[Bops2000]

I run a moving blanlet opposite the monitors in a 12 x 14 room, floor is wood laminate, I carpeted the wood door only I run carpet under the drums only. I am lucky as the cieling is 8 feet in 3/4's of the room, and rises to ten feet as a cathedral style opposite the drums. I would really like to isolate the drums though in the next bedroom, but I will have to wait till my father in law dies...

[spam]

Posted by Bops2000:
but I will have to wait till my father in law dies...
Holy crap, Bops!:eek:

[Bops2000]

Posted by Bops2000:

Holy crap, Bops!:eek:

Sorry to offend. Reality is simply ones perspective of ones life events.
(FYI, asside from sordid details; a quick synopsis; I worked pretty darn hard to get to where I am today, which is basically 0 to 100 mph in 50 years from a bottom end childhood and do not expect my children to be dealt pity cards from boppers.
Those of some intellegence; who meander in life with no pursuit of a challenge, no matter how small, are simply lazy in mind and spirit; and of less value to me in as much as the 'pity department' areas of my thoughts.
Condensed version...

Had to say somthing to that spammers.
........end of off topic rant........

(added edit- looks like I lost the Sweetwater giveaway on this one )

[spam]

Posted by Bops2000:
Sorry to offend.
No offense taken, Bops. It just caught me off guard;) .

...looks like I lost the Sweetwater giveaway on this one
Well your post just has to be meaningful...which means you mean it, right?

[dcwave]

As far as a cheep diffuser goes you can use any 4 x 8 hard/cheep wood and spray on some ceiling popcorn. That will scatter the sound waves in hundreds of directions

Do not waste your money on this. Spraying ceiling popcorn has about the same effect as having a normal textured wall = none, or not enough to be effective or noticable.



If you are in a bedroom your biggest battle will be with the low end - you need bass trapping, the more the better.

[terry]

dcwave

I stand corrected here is a excerp from SAE

Diffusion in the Control Room

I must say at this point that I have a problem with diffusion in a control room. Sure the diffuser does disperse the sound evenly within the room and it sounds impressive but I've found that when working in a diffuse control room you get a distortion of the amount of "life" in a sound. The diffusion makes everything sound airy and open but what's on tape might not have that factor.

A control room is a working environment, not a listening room

In a control room you are wanting to hear exactly what is on tape and you want to be able to analyse it completely so that you can add the necessary components such as EQ,reverberation, compression etc. Direct sound from the speaker is the aim in a control room and I feel diffusion clouds that image. I realise I'm about to be criticised for such a view soI leave it up to you.

The shapes chosen for diffusers are really a matter of taste and cost. Avoid concave curves, which focus sound instead of dispersing it, but otherwise pyramids, lattices, or computer designed random surfaces all work well. The depth of a diffuser determines the lowest frequency that will be affected. A diffuser one foot deep will scatter sound down to 160 Hz. Diffusers can be built by the home studio owner quite simply by creating a multi surface plane. The typical one is lots of blocks of wood of various sizes glued onto a backing sheet. Go to a house construction site and ask for all the 100mm x 100mm (4" x 4") offcuts. Glue the blocks of irregular lengths onto a backing sheet of plywood, spray it with paint and stick it on the wall. You will now be the owner of a new trendy studio with a diffuser on the back wall of your control room.

( Sense a bit of cynicism??)

Diffusion In the studio

Diffusion in the studio is a great idea and one of the best way to add it is to have stone walls in your studio. Not flat stone but round and irregular stones that create a rigid random diffuse surface. The reverberation created in such a room will be rich and diffuse which is what you want in a good reverb unit. (Note here that some effects units have a control over diffusion in their reverb programs)The greater the "depth" of the diffuser the lower the frequencies affected. I recommend such a wall in a drum room if you want live drum sounds. Otherwise try the wooden block system, it works really well also



VARIOUS TYPES OF DIFFUSERS

I have called the angled - curved - pyramid shapes absorbers/diffusers because they can be built as low frequency absorbers yet will also act as diffusers. See the section on low frequency absorbers. Today various companies manufacture pre - built diffusers that can be purchased and installed in your studio.

I must say here that the last three diffuser types are pure diffusers and perform no other function whereas the the first three types can act a low frequency absorbers. In the home studio your room sizes are usually small and low and low-mid frequency coloration is your main problem so to waste treatable wall space with just a diffuser to me is a waste of wall space. Slat resonators also act as diffusers because the slats with the gaps break up the surface and I would advise you to use them instead. The best place to use diffusers is in a live room if you have the space to dedicate a room specifically for that.


this was taken right off their web site.

[EliasGwinn]

I agree that you don't want your control room too live, but you also don't want it too dead, cause then you'll want to add too much verb that will cloud-up when played in a 'real' room.

The main thing for a control room (aside from the standing-wave and build-up demons) is to eliminate early reflections, as these will really mess with your head...phasing, slapback, unclear stereo imaging, etc, etc.... Try to control the speaker->wall->ear path, as well as speaker->desk/console/etc->ear, and speaker->ceiling->ear.

[terry]

EliasGwinn

Im never going to live that 'real' down am I!

[SilentBob]

http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--SAFB-Mineral-Wool-2-inch--1003.html

You can pick some of this stuff up and make some defusers out of it. just cut to the size you want and wrap in some cloth and hang on the walls or ceiling.

[EliasGwinn]

EliasGwinn

Im never going to live that 'real' down am I!

I wasn't referring to anything you said...I don't even remember when you said it....but it definately applies!!;)

But to answer your question....no, we're never, EVER gonna let you live it down:D

[terry]

EliasGwinn

OK!:o :o :o ;)

[sabianq]

Ha!
I figured it out!

the cheapest way to get a fantastic absorption panel.

I was desperate for acoustic treatment in my tracking/live room, the room was a nightmare to deal with. 2 walls are Luan over 1/2 inch "studs" glued onto a very rigid concrete filled cinder block wall half buried in the earth.
one picture window facing outside to the street (fortunately there is very little traffic). the other walls are framed 2x4 studs covered with gypsum board and wood panel painted white. the ceiling is 3/4 inch plaster.

a 100 db broad band impulse would literally ring the heater vent and cause bad HF slap back making the space unusable for anything but spoken word

the noise floor of the space without any treatment and no vehicles driving by is an astonishing -60 ~ -70 db (bettering a blank cassette tape)
a refrigerator in the kitchenette adjacent to the space hums along at 50 HZ and is audible at -30 or so db but a high pass filter or just unplugging the reefer stops that noise.

a side note on unplugging your refrigerator, if your wife is storing food in the reefer, Just use a hi-pass filter to keep her happy and the food from thawing as it is very easy to forget to plug back in the reefer after tracking all day.

back to the absorption panel.

well, having my own studio, i also have no money being that i spent it on all that other stuff like computers software and microphones.

i did have a Queen sized mattress that really needed to go the the dump.
and i 100% understand that duct taping a mattress to a wall can be more problematic that anything both in acoustic and safety related issues.

so i got to thinking,

i grabbed a knife and proceeded to take apart the mattress to see what it is made of.

sure enough, the mattress (Sealy Posturepedic) pad is one piece and sewen on the side material it is called a pillow top
http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/assets/product_images/380/52121109026C.JPG

and can be cut away from the rest of the unit reveling egg crate high density foam (the same crap that is being sold on ebay as "acoustic treatment" for cheap) covering the spring architecture.
http://www.originalmattress.com/images/smallmat1.gif
while this foam itself does not make a good acoustic absorbing panel by any means, i found that by combining the pillow top and the foam under pad makes for really nice sounding acoustic absorption material.

so i took the foam pad and the pillow top off the dissected mattress, held them together with the foam pad against the wall and the pillow top covering the foam pad, (very heavy) I proceeded to hang the contraption to the wall using 1 inch drywall screws. well, as you might have guessed it was sagging off the wall, so i added more screws, and literally battened the pad to the wall with 30 or so screws randomly "patterned" paying attention to the edges and the "field" if you will of the pad.

after i was done i ran white noise at 124 db and used my RTA with a calibrated mic to see how well my "el cheap o" ugly wall hanging worked.

I was surprised that the the RTA showed a relatively flat response with a 12 db attenuation of most of the frequencies below 100 hz.

that annoying HF slap back was gone. but i was still having issues with the ringing of the air handling vent in the ceiling.

Later I removed the vent air direction thingy exposing the the large gaping hole in the ceiling. I considered covering it up completely with 3/4 inch plywood but in the end i ended up building a box made of 2x4 and thick plywood around (attached to the ceiling joists) it so as to direct the air to the side of the room rather than straigh down, this really quieted the rushing noise of the air as it entered toe room. and i didnt have to block anything. aparently by pure luck i tightened up the metal air vent and that annoying ring was silenced.

so what to do about that ugly yellowing mattress pillow top battened to my wall. out came the old white and blue latex wall paint from an older project and "poof", instant abstract art.

Thinking the ad hoc, mattress derived absorption panel was going to be an ineffective and laughable ugly wall wart designed to scare away potential clients, i was convinced this experiment would fail and just end up being more work than anything, but i was very surprised at the result and thought it warranted a write up.

i hope this information is useful, but please don't take it to heart, i have not had time to do proper NRC rating measurements on this project. but at the very least, it has a good fire rating.
cheers!

[87PRS]

My first studio 86' was called "Fatt Mattress", hence mattresses, have you tried making a tunnel and crawling into the thing...

and...the thing I couldn't believe was...Boppers has a father in law living with him....thats still alive! Oh the torment.