In Ear Monitor Woes, PLEASE HELP

[simplymatt]

Ok, so I'm new to the forum here and I've been all over the internet trying to find some help - I'm hoping to find some here.

I'm in a 6 piece band:
Vocalist/Guitarist (me)
Guitarist
Guitarist
Bassist
Keyboardist
Drummer

We're into perfect timing, or trying to get there - we practice with a click track blarring through our PA. Obviously we can't have a click track blarring through the PA at a show. So - we've decided that in ear's would be a great thing to have. For one, we'd all get to hear the click, and for me personally, I'd finally be able to hear myself sing and not have to rely on the floor wedges and sound guys to do so.

THE QUESTION:

We're not exactly making big money as a band or as personal members of the working force - so we're trying to keep the cost down. So far, what I have seen for cost down solutions is Nady. Probably the cheapest solution. However, according to the reviews I read on musicians friend, its not just the price that is cheap. The problem that comes with any system that is apparently of better quality (Shure, etc) is that not only does the transmitter go way up in price, but the receivers practically go up 10 times! The Nady receiver for their lowest end product is about $40 from musicians friend, the lowest Shure receiver is about $330! $330 X 6 band members = way too much money for us to spend on this.

So to the meat of the question - can you run receivers of a different brand with a transmitter of a different brand - i.e., a Shure transmitter with Nady receivers? Because, for some reason I could see putting more money into the transmitter but can't really come to terms with spending that much for for the receivers.

Also, any additional advice for the whole subject of in ear monitors (IEM) would be great. And, any advice on how to save money on a system even better.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME!

-Matt, Simply Waiting

[simplymatt]

any input? Thanks guys!

-Matt, Simply Waiting

[Audiodude]

I've never tried mixing brands, and of course you won't get Shure or Nady to say whether their stuff works with somebody else's. But I'd be very surprised if you could pull this off.

In general, wireless in-ears are expensive. They just are. PSM200's from Shure are the cheapest quality system that I am aware of. One cool thing about them is that the beltpack receivers will work wired or wireless. You can start off with a wired system for $329 and make it wireless later by adding the transmitter(s) for $299 each.

Some general advice on in-ear monitors... Making the switch to in-ears can dramatically improve your sound by reducing stage volume and cleaning up the "mud" that comes off the stage into the audience. But it makes it much more important to have a good monitor mix, since with in-ears you are acoustically cut off from everybody else in the room. So you'll want to take the time to really dial in a good mix that gives you everything you need to hear.

[sabianq]

you would have a difficult time mixing and matching different brands of in-ear monitors, there are thousands of frequencies and Nady and Shure keep their operating frequencies pretty far apart.

[simplymatt]

Thanks for the reply guys!

After a lot for the research I was doing, I knew that I probably couldn't get away with a good system by going the Nady route - it's just so much money with a 6 piece band to outfit everyone with even the lowest end Shure system.

What we're really like to be able to do is get a click to everyone in the band via an in-ear system. Therefore, the sound quality and mix aren't ultra important, and we would probably even go with just one ear with a monitor and the other an ear plug as normal.

Do you know of any system that could just be used for that? Is there such a thing? If not, if anyone looking at this post is in the business of new product development I think that this could be a useful system for lots of performers.

-Matt, Simply Waiting

[sabianq]

Super simple solution!

get a bunch of these:

http://www.etronics.com/planding.asp?dp=02D2A2E6920253E3C363F3B357E3736373 73233303&stk_code=cobcx7red&svbname=425
little tiny fm radios
these hang around your neck and have cool colors.

http://images.etronics.com/products/cobcx7red.jpg

but im sure there are other cheap fm radios out there

then get yourself an fm transmitter
http://www.hobbytron.com/Synthesized-FM-Stereo-Transmitter.html

http://images.hobbytron.com/fm25bnew.jpg

and hook that to your metronome output.
cheap!

[sabianq]

with the setup above, you could transmit a mix to the radios with the metronome mixed in,
heck, get yourself a stronger transmitter and transmit your band to the people driving by.

great for old people who cant hear!

the list goes on and on..

[simplymatt]

I've looked over the products above and I'm wondering - would this work?!?! Seems almost too simple. The only concern I'm having is how to "broadcast" the click. I'm guessing from the transmitter description that I simply pick a channel (that isn't currently in use in the area we're in) and tune all the receivers to that channel. Wow, if this really worked it would save us A LOT of cash.

Thanks a lot for the suggestions!

Any more input on this idea?

-Matt, Simply Waiting

[sabianq]

yes, it will work, just pick a channel that is not being used by local broad cast and tune your individual radios to that channel.

anyone with a radio (within the radio freq zone) can listen to whatever you broadcast

you can try it on a small scale by purchasing a bunch of 4 dollar radios, and getting a Compact disk FM transmitter (one that is used to play your disks over the radio in your car) from eBay for 10 bucks.
they may only have a 5-10 foot radius but you can get a more powerful one if you spend some more money.

search "fm transmitter" in google

http://cgi.ebay.com/RAMSEY-FM100B-FM-STEREO-TRANSMITTER-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ220047298012QQihZ012QQcategoryZ294QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

here is a 10 watt transmitter for 500 bucks.
http://cgi.ebay.com/FM-Stereo-Transmitter-Commercial-Quality-10-Watts_W0QQitemZ200045679624QQihZ010QQcategoryZ1498 0QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


the FCC allows >1 watt transmission power before you need a licence.

a 25 milliwatt transmission will be able to be heard up to 100 meters with a clear line of site.

as for "how to broadcast the click" just hook you your metronome's output (assuming you have an electronic metronome otherwise if it is one of those old mechanicle ones, you may need to place a microphone in front of it and send the signale through your mixer on a dedicated channel then to the transmitter) to the input of the transmitter.

the transmitter uses a line level input

[jmail]

For simplymatt: Are you trying for a steady beat all the way thru a song? An in-ear click will drive ya nutz (as a band)! You could do a click for the drummer only, but be prepared for "Animal" activity in short order as he tries to maintain "the beat" and can't because the band either drags him down, or pulls him along... lolol It ain't as easy for a whole band to play along with a click track as it would seem. Try it by yourself sometime, and see how close you can stay in time with a click... It is good discipline, tho... Re-inforcement is good for the "learning" experience, such as electro-shock for the guitar player(s)... tic

[sabianq]

such wisdom from jmail.

had me laughin' and rolling around.

ANI-MAL.. ANI-MAL .ANI-MAL .

[spam]

Simplymatt, my 1.5 cents:

*The drummer is the click track for the other players. Keep him/her on time and consistent and everyone else will fall in line, provided they are relatively proficient and have some measure of rhythm.

*Most players have their own interpretation of rhythm and timing. Two people listening to the same click track could play something totally opposite each other, and while both are right according to the click, what is being played may not work with each other. I think this may come into play even more with in ear monitoring, as everyone may be more inclined to listen to the click instead of each other.

That being said, unless your band is playing in some seriously complex time signatures, I don't see why it's needed. No offense.

[sabianq]

how about a strobe light?

the drummer can use a flashing LED?

[jmail]

... the drummer can use a flashing LED?
Nah... to hypnotic... Not only that, but the guitar players will think someone's "Bogarting" a doob and wander off to investigate...

[itsplayed]

*The drummer is the click track for the other players. Keep him/her on time and consistent and everyone else will fall in line, provided they are relatively proficient and have some measure of rhythm.

Without a doubt the drummers job is to keep time. If he can't....find one who can! There is a device(metronome) that gets attached to the drum kit that flashes a pulse that can help keep the drummer in time. I've also heard mention of a device that can put a pulse into the seat of the throne itself, I've never seen it and it may have never taken off. As a drummer, I'd find it very distracting to have a beat in my bum!

[Dominion28]

A problem I've found with having myself (the drummer) being the only one playing to a click is that the guitarist has a habit of going off in a worldof his own. Being a four piece this throws everyone off as I'm playing the track to click and he's way ahead of me.

[drmz4life]

Hello, I played in a band where my singer insisted on everyone listening to a click track, but what he didn't understand is that everybody perceives the click differently. He quickly realized that the drummer is the only one who should be listening to the click while the other players all listen to the drummer. As far as the in ear monitors. i have been using custom fitted in ear monitors for quite a while now. I play drums 4-5 nites every week here in Florida. I just started using these new custom fitted in ear monitors I found that are designed by a drummer for drummers. They are called drmearz. I saw online that drmearz just endorsed Nick Rich (Buddy Rich's grandson). That gave them enough street credit for me to try them. I'm extremely satisfied. I put my whole drum mix + vocals + sequence & click as well as bass & guitar all @ a comfortable level while isolating out all the stage loudness.They are only single drivers, but the price is right & the customer service was awesome. Custom fitted in ear monitors definitely help me lock in with the band better. Hope this helps with your decision......... cheerz

[TimmyP1955]

A problem I've found with having myself (the drummer) being the only one playing to a click is that the guitarist has a habit of going off in a worldof his own. Being a four piece this throws everyone off as I'm playing the track to click and he's way ahead of me.

If he cannot or will not follow a human drummer, I don't think he's going to be any better at following an electronic or mechanical click. I'd say that his musical destiny is as a solo artist.