Why does Audition impose a -6 dB limit on mono tracks?

[Tuco]

Maybe I'm missing something fundamental here, but I've noticed some strange behavior when I record to a single mono track in Edit mode, OR convert a two-channel file to mono, OR bounce a stereo track in Multitrack mode.

Here's what happens . . .

1. When I record to a mono file (any sampling rate), the signal is hard limited at -6 dB -- the waveform is truncated dead flat at -6. This has nothing to do with outboard gear; I've swapped it out and it doesn't make a difference. But when recording the same signal to a stereo track, the signal is not limited -- it takes up the entire amplitude range from infinity to 0 dB.

2. If I convert any stereo file to mono, it also is limited at -6 dB . . . WITH a few spikes that go to 0 dB. This happens both in Audition and also in another program I tried. I don't get it -- why would a mono signal not have a complete amplitude range?

3. Lastly, when a stereo track is bounced to a new track in Multitrack mode, it's limited at -3 dB, that's inconsistent with the above behavior and still not full-range.

What's going on? Is this a settings issue? Something else?

[jmail]

Look in your "Preferences" section (I can't remember what it's called in Audition - I have Cool Edit Pro...) and see if you've got something in there. What it sounds like, tho, is that you've got a limiter plug somewhere in your chain...

[Tuco]

Thanks, but I've checked preferences and found nothing. Also, I've changed out the front-end equipment and it makes no difference -- there is no limiter in the chain. It's something inside Audition.

[oretez]

I'm assuming you're talking about AA v2 . . . there is something that looks like an official anomaly to this

it hasn't been elevated to 'bug' status (and it's unlikely Adobe would ever do that or address the issue directly, they tend to merely sub rosa fix the issue with the next upgrade (for which they will charge $)).

there is still the possibility that this occurs due to the way a number of dependent variables are set on individual systems

and thus will, eventually, have a (relatively) easy 'fix' . . .

but for all the discussion, concern I haven't seen such a fix yet

if you haven't yet you might migrate here: http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?13@@.1de98f7a

and search for any current discussions

[GZsound]

You should also check out www.audiomastersforum.net for the answer. Just be prepared for a bunch of attitude, but they can be helpful.

[Tuco]

OK, thanks. Yes, I'm talking about Audition 2.0.

I looked through Adobe Forums and Audio Masters -- nothing definitive at either place as far as I can see.

Are there any "Audition for Dummies" books or other printed sources that might discuss this issue?

[GZsound]

According to my Adobe manual, there are two ways to set the recording levels to the software. Either via the sound card mixer applet or with Windows settings.

There is no "automatic" limiting in Audition, since it records what you put in it...even overdriven clipped signals.

So, check and see if your sound card has a mixer application and check to see what the Windows control panel "record" properties and levels are set to.

[Tuco]

Already checked all that, everything maxed out.

As I mentioned earlier, I can record full-amplitude in stereo no problem, but Audition is limited to -6 dB in mono.

If you have a moment, try it yourself and let me know if you can achieve any signal in -6 dB to 0 dB range when recording to a mono track in Edit mode. (I'm using Audition 2.0)

[GZsound]

Already checked all that, everything maxed out.

As I mentioned earlier, I can record full-amplitude in stereo no problem, but Audition is limited to -6 dB in mono.

If you have a moment, try it yourself and let me know if you can achieve any signal in -6 dB to 0 dB range when recording to a mono track in Edit mode. (I'm using Audition 2.0)

I don't have 2.0, I'm using 1.5 and I record ALL my tracks in mono and never use stereo except for final mixdown tracks.

There is no "automatic" limiting in my version of Audition, nor is there any mention of one in the manual.

I will post the question for you on Audiomasters forum since I am a member, and see what the folks there have to say. Stand by...

[GZsound]

Actually, I noticed you already posted your question to the Audiomasters forum..

I am interested in what they come up with..

[Tuco]

I already posted over there.

[ebowgroup]

Hi all,

I want to bring this back to the top because I am having the same problem. Will someone with AA 2.0 try doing this, if you have a plug to do it:

Come out of the headphone jack of your computer and plug right into your microphone jack on your computer (not using your normal recording gear). When I do this and play a file using Windows Media Player or something, I get normal recording levels in AA. But, If I record through a microphone through my M-Audio Firewire solo, I am limited at -6 db.

From the research I have done, I am wondering if it is certain audio interfaces that cause this problem. Otherwise, wouldn't everybody be experiencing this problem. There are hundreds of Radio stations that use AA. Surely some of them have upgraded to 2.0. Are they having this same problem? They would not put up with it.

One post I saw said that edit view automatically tries to record the L and R channel at the same time. If you record in stereo, the -6 problem does not happen and the L records at normal levels. The guy said he made an adapter to plug his one microphone into 2 input channels and edit view recorded normally. That seems strange. The problem is that I only have 1 input on the Firewire Solo. There has to be another way to fix this.

Any help will be much appreciated.

[87PRS]

not sure if this will help your problem....I just recently started using AA 2.0 and under the effects tab, there is an amplify tab, also "amplify processing" click on processing, there are several choices in there that let you choose -3, -6, -10, plus all the "+' choices...maybe one of these are ticked.

[ebowgroup]

Ok guys, I have found a good work around for the -6 db problem.

Go ahead and record in stereo, because in stereo you get a normal L channel and a blank R channel. In AA 2.0, you can go to 'Edit' - 'Edit Channel' - 'Edit Left Channel' and select only the L channel of the stereo recording. Or you can put your cursor above the green waveform and select the L channel by dragging you mouse in an upward direction. Anyway, select the L channel and then "right click" and select "Copy to New." That will cut-and-paste the L channel into a new mono track with normal recording levels as hot as you want them.

This also fixes the problem that you get when you try to "bounce to new" the stereo track. If you do it that way, AA limits everything back to -6 db, which was the problem you were trying to avoid in the first place.

I know there has to be a way to get a normal hot recording on a mono track, but until I figure it out, what I described above seems to be the only way to work around it.

I hope this helps.

[MASSIVE Master]

I don't want to jump in sideways, but "normal" and "hot" have little to do with each other in a tracking scenario. I've accidentally hit -6dBFS here and there while tracking (only on very rare occasions), but a peak at -6dBFS is an awful lot "hotter" than "normal" by any stretch.

I'm not saying the software shouldn't work - No doubt, it should. But if you're recording at "normal" levels, you aren't going to get up around -6dBFS at the tracking level. Unless you're purposefully overdriving your front end for some reason...