How to Build a Home Studio

[cool skill]

I currently use a good PC.
P4 2.8 Prescott.

I don't have a soundcard right now.
I'm wondering what I would need to record vocals and keyboard(piano).
I'm using Sonar 5.

This is the current equipment I plan to purchase:
Behringer HPS3000 Headphones. $30
Behringer MS16 Studio Monitor Speakers. $60
Behringer C-1 Studio Microphone. $50

I was wondering what I should use to connect these items to my computer.

1. Should I get a sound card or an external box that connects with USB2 (or firewire)? What other items would I need other than these 3 devices?

I have not decided on a decent keyboard yet.

Thanks!

[Bops2000]

at the risk of sounding 'snippity'. why would you be using such low end equipment with such a high end peice of software ?

I would invest in sound card first. Do a search on this site

Be good

[ShaneC]

Rule #1. No Behringer!
Cheap noisy copy-cat items with low life expectancy.

[cool skill]

OK. Thanks. I was about to go for Behringer because they were cheap. What would your recommend for speakers/mic that's cheap but good?

[TimOBrien]

My obligatory standard reply that I keep in Wordpad:

Immediately get a good beginner recording book (spend $20 before spending hundred$/thousand$) that shows you what you need to get started and how to hook everything up in your studio:
Home Recording for Musicians by Jeff Strong - $15
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0764516345/102-9059220-3248917?v=glance&n=283155&amp%3Bn=507846&amp%3Bs=books&v=glance
(Wish I'd had that when I started; would have saved me lots of money and time and grief)

Good Newbie guide that also explains all the basics:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

Other recording books:
http://musicbooksplus.com/home-recording-c-31.html


Plenty of software around to record for free to start out on:

Audacity: http://audacity.sourceforge.net

Kristal: http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/

Other freebies and shareware: www.hitsquad.com

[Bops2000]

What Bops uses, - that would be me..
Monitors - MAudio DX4 for close end mixin, Behringer Truth
B2031's for monitor. Mackie CR1604vlz for musical, microphone inputs.
Behringer UB1832fx for headphone monitor, playback, rehearse tracks.
Terrateck Phase 88 pci cards times 2 for 16 tracks analog in.
To Sonar Producer 4.3 Producer. Adding TRacks as DXI, CD Architect 5, and a lotta other 'bling' sampling, effects processors.
I have a point here, as I think you are giddy on the whole Idea of independent recording, as am I. You can't compete with the big guns sonicly,
You CAN compete as far as delivery of the demo to market.
There is nothing wrong with behringer stuff for your needs, but think about what you have already - sonar, you can record a boatload of tracks at once, that means you are a true multitrack studio from the git go, sometimes we lose the obvious scenerios by getting bogged down in studio fluff...
ok I done now
Be good

[cool skill]

Thanks. Sonar 5 is great, but I'm still not sure what hardware I need to get, and how this works. Those mixing boards you have are pretty huge. All I really plan to do is record vocals. Perhaps record from a keyboard piano as well.
Somebody said that behringer was no good so I decided to go with Maudio.

1.MICROPHONE
Nova $130
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Nova-main.html

2. MONITOR SPEAKERS
StudioPro 3 $100
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/StudioPro3-main.html


So if I get these, a pair of headphones for the vocalist and a low cost Yamaha keyboard as well, I would need to plug them into my computer.

Since my computer has no soundcard, I would need to get something with an input for microphone and keyboard and an output for both of my monitor speakers and headphones.

Microphone
Keyboard
Speakers
Headphones

Is there a PCI card I would plug these 4 items into to get what I need?
or do I need some external box?

[GZsound]

I think if I had to do it all over again, the solution would be simple. I would buy a Firewire mixer first.

No sound card needed. Phantom power, eq, etc. all in one unit.

An Alesis Firewire mixer starts at $400. That's darn cheap for an interface with four low impedence mic pre's, phantom power and soundcard all in one.

Next I would buy an AT 2020 mic. Great reviews and under a hundred bucks.

Monitor speakers? M Audio BX5A or Event TR5.

Add a mic stand and a cable, a headphone.. You're done.

I have nothing against Behringer stuff and own a bunch of it, but there is better quality equipment for very nearly the same money.

[itsplayed]

it starts at $300 for the Multimix8 and I'm considering a purchase to see how it performs. It's sample rate is limited though and individual channels are sent to the computer after the preamp gain knob, the high-pass filter, the three-band EQ, and the channel fader....this may be good but it may also be trouble. It would be nice to have a switching option. I haven't read any reviews on it as yet though, it's still too new.

[cool skill]

OK. So I wouldn't need any soundcard. I can just get something like this to connect by firewire: http://www.alesis.com/photos.php?id=40.

Then I can hook up my 4 itmes to that: mic, monitor speakers, headphones, keyboard right?

Is there something that does the same thing, but for a much lower price?

[cool skill]

?Would I be able to plug in a microphone, keyboard, monitor speakers, and headphones into this:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192-main.html

[itsplayed]

?Would I be able to plug in a microphone, keyboard, monitor speakers, and headphones into this:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192-main.html

You'll need either a small mixing board or a mic preamp and headphone amp as well.

[itsplayed]

For what you want at your price point you'll need to go the USB interface route....such as the Tascam US-122 for around $200

[spam]

I have read much of this forum (and others) and found it very helpful/frustrating. I am building a DAW and would like a general overview of my intended system.
Dell Dimension E510, pentium 4 630 w/ht (3.0ghz, 800fsb)
2gb dual channel ddr2 sdram @ 533mhz
160gb serial ata drive w/databurst
sound blaster audigy advanced hd audio
ieee 1394 adapter
xp media center

Phonic Helix 18 firewire mixer
Misc studio hardware

I want to use this set up as 80% DAW/20% other applications and would appreciate any input. Thanks

[GZsound]

?Would I be able to plug in a microphone, keyboard, monitor speakers, and headphones into this:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192-main.html

I am unclear as to why you don't want to buy a mixer.

The term "mixer" mean it "mixes" all the various components you need and sends them out where you need.

With a mixer, you have microphone preamps, microphone gain, line level inputs for keyboards, etc. EQ on each channel, the ability to mix outboard effects, the ability to send individual channels to a recorder, monitor outputs, headphone outputs, main outputs, control room outputs, etc.

Since you want to "mix" all your various needs... Why not just buy a "mixer"?

Simply buying a sound card with various inputs might do the trick, but not nearly as cheaply or as easily as a simple mixer. And most sound cards don't have EQ, pan, channel inserts, aux sends and returns, etc.

So.. to answer your question, yes, a sound card might work. But a mixer will certainly work.

[GZsound]

I have read much of this forum (and others) and found it very helpful/frustrating. I am building a DAW and would like a general overview of my intended system.
Dell Dimension E510, pentium 4 630 w/ht (3.0ghz, 800fsb)
2gb dual channel ddr2 sdram @ 533mhz
160gb serial ata drive w/databurst
sound blaster audigy advanced hd audio
ieee 1394 adapter
xp media center

Phonic Helix 18 firewire mixer
Misc studio hardware

I want to use this set up as 80% DAW/20% other applications and would appreciate any input. Thanks

The only thing I would suggest is to install a second SATA drive. Audio seems to like it better when the program is on one drive and data is on another.

I have dual 160 SATA drives in my music computer and it works just fine. I would also make sure you have a plenty heavy power supply. A lot of store bought computers come with whimpy 250 or 300 watt power supply.

[cool skill]

I don't have anything against mixers. I'm just not sure what they are or what I need them for.
I'm looking for something to plug my items into my PC so I can use them with Sonar.

As far as my research goes, all I need is an audio/MIDI interface box, but if you think a mixer would be more worhtwhile, please tell me more about it. I also wasn't sure a mixer handles audio/MIDI interface for the PC. I had the impression that you would still have to plug a mixer into an audio/MIDI interface box.

This is the USB audio/MIDI interface from Maudio:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackPro-main.html

I can plug 2 mics to the front plus headphones. And It has ports in the back for MIDI in/out and speaker cables. I'm looking for something similar to that. Possibly something that uses a better connection than a USB.


I was looking at this, but everybody says to stay away from Behringer:
$190
http://www.behringer.com/BCA2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG
I like the Behringer website because they seem to have alot of stuff for low price. Are they really that unreliable regarding hardware quality?


I was looking at the Alesis Multimix 8 firewire mixer:
http://www.alesis.com/product.php?id=40
I don't really like their site because they do not have prices.
It's $300 on Zzounds.

I was hoping for something that could do a good job for less than $200. If I can get a good audio/MIDI interface box for under $200, great. If you think that it would be much more worthwhile for me to get a mixer instead of an audio/MIDI box, let me know more.

[cool skill]

As for a sound card, I'm not sure if I really need one.
If I have a good audio/midi box or mixer, do I still need a good soundcard?

[dawboxpro]

Wow it has been a while since I have been out here, good to be back...:D

Stay away from low end entry level gear. Get yourself a decent Firewire Soundcard like the Firewire 410 $299 or the Firewire Solo $199. Get a decent Large diaphram mic Perception-100 or 200 $$119-$159 as well as a lipstick condenser for recording instruments.

just poor sound in poor sound out.....no matter what is in the middle

[cool skill]

Here is my latest line up. $677


1. Audio/MIDI Interface
MAudio Firewire 410 Mobile Recording Interface
$300
Front: 2 mic preamp inputs. 2 Headphone outs.
Back: MIDI in, MIDI out, 2 Firewire ports, 8 Line outs, 2 Line ins, S/PDIF coax I/O,

S/PDIF optical I/O.
(Can anybody tell me which ports the monitor speakers would plug into?)

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3731124


2. Studio Monitor Speakers
MAudio StudioPro 3
$80
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product_Id=4059985&JRSource=googlebase.dataf

eed.MIM+SP-3S


3. Microphone
MAudio Nova Cardioid Condenser Microphone
$100
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3968465


4. Headphones
$17
Sony MDR-XD100
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4038509


5. Keyboard
Yamaha PSR295
$180
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3986040

[GZsound]

Sounds like you have it figured out.

You have mic inputs, line inputs, headphone outs, and eight line outputs..of which I presume two could be routed to your monitors.

You still don't have tone control, etc. But since it appears you are only going to be doing one track at a time anyway, you should be good to go.

I won't try to sell you on a mixer, since it appears you don't want one..

Good luck with your project.

[cool skill]

Thanks.
It does not appear that I do not want a mixer.

I am here to get advice from people with more experience.
If getting a mixer was a significant, I would get one instead of the box.
I just figured Sonar does all the mixing, so paying extra for a mixer would be redundant.

The most important thing is that I do not get a box, and end up wishing I had gotten a mixer, or getting a mixer, and end up wishing I had saved my money, and gotten a box.

[the_binary_soul]

A mixer can be redundant, you can certainly do all your mixing through your PC. Chances are if you can't see a reason to have a mixer, you won't need one. I would say jump in and start making music, you will find some things that you think you need but didn't anticipate and you will probably find some things you thought you needed but don't.

If you were going for a firewire interface I would say the Alesis or try a Presonus. Though M-Audio is good I have heard some problems with their firewire devices.

I am surprised nobody has suggested an sm58. You could pick one up used off ebay for a good $60. Of course I'm not a real vocal person but most people seem to agree that it is a damn good mic for the price.

Some monitors will allow you to use the spdif (optical) port, but most use the normal Phono plugs. ( These are called by so many different names I don't know which to use )

[GZsound]

I agree a mixer may not be needed.

I personally like having a mixer. I built my studio and every upgrade around my mixer.

I can control multiple inputs (I have a 48 input eight bus), I can record a band rehearsal to cassette, ADAT, DAT or direct to disk with a flip of the switch. I can control monitors, multiple headphone sends, multiple outboard units, etc. without repatching, without doing anything but pushing a button.

I started with a Foxtex R8 reel to reel, then as technology improved I bought an ADAT, then another ADAT and a DAT machine. Then I bought a decent computer and interface, now, with the addition of a $250 interface, I have 24 tracks of direct to disk recording capability.

If I had started with a computer and a sound card.. I would have replaced the computer four times, the sound card four or five times, etc. and still not have the flexibility I now have.

Outboard effects or plug ins? Two seperate monitor mixes..just a knob turn away. Monitor sends.. Three of them. Just a knob turn away.

Turn on the mixer and turn on a cassette deck and run a quick reference tape of a band rehearsal. Turn on the mixer and the monitors and rehearse to my hearts content. Listen to my arrangements, etc.without booting up the computer, loading the software, making sure everything is configured properly, etc.

I'm old.. Simple makes more sense to me. I just haven't found the mouse to be an especially creative part of making music..

If I had to do it all over again, I would buy a Firewire mixer.

[cool skill]

I figure getting a mixer might be worth it as long as it's not too much more. It turns out that the Alesis Multimix is the same price as the interface boxes from Maudio and Presonus.


I'm looking at 5 components. Interface, microphone, speakers, headphones, and keyboard.


1. Mixer/Audio/MIDI Interface

I'm trying to decide between the Multimix 8 and the Presonus Firebox.
Does the mixer do everything the interface box does, and allow mixing?
Or are there something that the interface box does that cannot be done with the mixer?
I can't seem find a shot of the back of the Multimix 8. Nor can I figure out if there are MIDI ports on it.

Alesis MultiMix 8 $300
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ALEMULTIMIX8FW

Presonus Firebox $300
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PRSFIREBOX




2. Studio Monitor Speakers
I was looking at the Maudio desktops, but I decided to go an $100 for much better speakers.

Alesis Monitor One MK2 Studio Monitors $200
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ALEM1MK2


3. Microphone
The Shure sm58 could probably work well, but it's probably more geared to the stage. It's $105 if I get it new.

I'm looking at 2 microphones. The Maudio Nova or the MXL V67G. They are the same price. The Nova had great reviews. The V67G is ugly imo, but the site says it's made specifically for vocals. Furthermore, MXL seems to be more specialized in microphones than Maudio if that is in anyway relevant.


MAudio Nova Cardioid Condenser Microphone $100
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDONOVA

MXL V67G $100
http://www.mxlmics.com/condencer_mic/mxlv67g/mxlv67g.htm


4. Headphones
$17
Sony MDR-XD100
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4038509


5. Keyboard
Yamaha PSR295
$180
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3986040

[itsplayed]

As long as your not too concerned about recording above the 48khz range, the Multimix looks like a good all around choice. Although, the unit is rather new and not too many hands on, real world reviews are about. AFAIK there is no midi interface on it.

[cool skill]

OK. I'll try to double check on the MIDI situation for the multimix 8.
Is the sound quality better for recording above the 48khz range?

[itsplayed]

No, the optimal sample rate should be largely based on the required signal bandwidth. Audio industry salesman have been promoting faster than optimal rates. The promotion of such ideas is based on the fallacy that faster rates yield more accuracy and/or more detail. Weather motivated by profit or ignorance, the promoters, leading the industry in the wrong direction, are
stating the opposite of what is true.

[GZsound]

There is no midi interface on the Alesis mixer. An inexpensive M Audio USB midi interface would be the answer.

Other than the midi interface, the Alesis mixer does everything the M Audio firewire interface does, plus more. It has four phantom powered XLR inputs and two stereo line inputs, which in the current overhype doublespeak means it is an eight input unit. It has two stereo main outputs, one for your monitor system and one that could go to another recorder like a cassette deck or stand alone CD burner..etc. . It has built in effects and EQ on every channel. It has aux send and return.. All of which the M Audio sound card doesn't have. And like I said, you can turn it on, turn on your monitor speakers and rehearse, try out different effects, different eq, etc. without having to boot your computer every time.

Finding a good sounding reverb on your guitar or voice, for example. With the mixer, just dial in the reverb you want and rehearse. With the M Audio unit, you need to boot the computer, configure the interface, launch the software, launch the reverb, etc. And you have to do it again every time you want to rehearse or record.

Yes, the sound quality is "better" with higher resolution. However, you can record great tracks at 48K but be aware that all the other inexpensive equipment in your signal chain is what would keep your quality down, not the resolution. And with the inexpensive monitors you are buying, you would never hear the difference between 44.1, 48, 96 etc. anyway.

The Shure SM 57/58 mics are not only geared to the stage. They are the industry standard studio mics and considered by many to be the "desert island" microphone of choice. Having a large diaphragm condenser is a good idea too. I personally would buy an AT 2020 for a hundred bucks over any of the mics you are looking at. They are getting great reviews for the money.

[Bops2000]

although Sonar is awsome as a mixer, for me it is only awesome as a 'post mixer' to sub mixes.
You can get a used mackie 12 channel probably for 200 usd on ebay.
With that you have good mike pre's, effect sends/returns, direct outs/ins etc.
as well as Sub mix to monitor.
Sm 57 would be a wise choice also, its very clean and tight as well as not to fickle on sound pressure levels.

The set up you intend is probably all you need.... For now, I suspect as you get deeper into it, your initial question will be answered, RE: How to build a home studio" answer; With money

[cool skill]

I'll probably go with the AT2020 even though it has a lower rating on the ZZounds website. The noval has a real high rating on the website, but if the AT2020 is really good, I'll probably go with that.


Audio Technica AT2020 $100
http://www.zzounds.com/item--AUTAT2020

MAudio Nova Cardioid Condenser Microphone $100 (includes pop filter)
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDONOVA

MXL V67G $100
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSEMXLV67G

[cool skill]

I saw a lot of really good comments about the MXL 990 for $70
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=273156

[cool skill]

Any good ideas for accessories?
Mic stand, pop filter, table.

[GZsound]

although Sonar is awsome as a mixer, for me it is only awesome as a 'post mixer' to sub mixes.
You can get a used mackie 12 channel probably for 200 usd on ebay.
With that you have good mike pre's, effect sends/returns, direct outs/ins etc.
as well as Sub mix to monitor.
Sm 57 would be a wise choice also, its very clean and tight as well as not to fickle on sound pressure levels.

The set up you intend is probably all you need.... For now, I suspect as you get deeper into it, your initial question will be answered, RE: How to build a home studio" answer; With money

Except for the fact the Mackie would still require an interface to the computer of some kind, that's good advice. The Alesis and Phonix boards have Firewire interfaces built in.

And of course you are right. Anyone with a half a brain will soon learn that no matter what you own, what you use to record music with, what is in your mic cabinet, what mic preamp you use, what resolution you record, what computer you have, etc....You simply will NOT be able to make good music unless you buy X_________ for lots more money.

I always get a kick out of the typical response to inquiry's on these forums.. A guy has say, a thousand dollars to spend on a mic pre. "What's a good mic pre for a thousand dollars?" There will always be somebody that will say to them "gee, for only a couple hundred MORE you can get _______ pre, which is much better".. Same with mics, same with mixers, same with monitors...etc.

Personally, I have realized that I will never make good music until I can buy the $185,000 Pro Tools system from Sweetwater. Of course, then I would need fifty or sixty thou to improve my studio.. and of course then I would need forty or fifty thousand for vintage U47 mics and five grand pre's, and of course it will be obsolete in a year........

So, until then, I'll just keep practicing my craft, knowing I will never make good music.

[cool skill]

I always figured that there was a minimum standard of quality on would aim for in a sound recording.

Your post seems to be aimed at a maximum standard of quality which is perfection.

In my approach to any form of product research is to ask what exactly I could get to achieve a minumum standard of X quality. As long as the standard is no lower than X, I should be good to go.

MY minimum standard for a mic and monitors is that I can input a clean crisp sound with a mic, and hear and accurate output of the sound with the speakers.


For speakers, I believe the output I am looking for can be delivered with the Alesis Monitor One MK2 $200.
Alesis Monitor One MK2 Studio Monitors
$200
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ALEM1MK2

Of course there are better with a higher standard of sound for a higher price, but this set I believe will cover everything I would want in a pair of studio monitors very well.

As for a mic, from what I know, I can get a perfectly clear crisp quality from the MXL 990 including mount for $70.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ess?sku=273156

If the ATA 2020, really would make a noticable difference, I would probably pay the $100 for that instead plus whatever the cost for a mount.


I had been looking at the Gina G3, because I heard a PCI interface would be faster and better than firewire. All the places I looked at had firewire for $300 where as the Gina G3 was $350.
I finally found the Gina G4 for $280, so I decided I would go with that.
I would get a mixer, but I only plan to record vocals which can be done well with a box.

[GZsound]

Actually, I was being a little outrageous.

Even the $185,000 Pro Tools setup isn't "perfection". Some dummy with a stand alone Fostex recorder and a bunch of 57's could most likely create "better" music if the tunes were well written and recorded..then a lot of "pro" engineers with their multi thousand dollar studio's.

You get what you can afford, do your very best to get the most out of it and just see if you can't get good music out of your system.

Sounds like the Gina is your choice.. Make some good music with it.

[cool skill]

Yes thanks.

This reminds me of playing pool. I remember playing pool with a worn down table and no cusion on the stick. At first, all of my shots were off, but as I got accustomed to it, I was playing perfectly on that table.

A person recording the exact same songs on a system that is a few thousand dollars (maybe a few hundred dollars) might not get as good quality of music as a $185,000 system. But is the quality so much better that it is really worth paying the extra $180,000? Not to me. I'm no expert, but with modern technology, it seems like the quality that can come out of a thousand dollar system is not that much different from the quality of a system that costs 180 times more.


I chose the box over the external mixer because of the cost, and that I only plan to record vocals. Any mixing on the vocals can be done within Sonar.

I decided on Gina G3 over the firewire box because I felt that a PCI interface would be better for a desktop than firewire. Firewire would be good for laptops.

[Bops2000]

Dizzie gillepsie played an old beat up horn, and it sounded great.
If you are good at what you work with, then what you work with is good.
Sorry for the zen moment.

[itsplayed]

If you needed to have a 100k+ recording setup to create good music, there wouldn't be a tenth of the music that's out in the marketplace. Equipment doesn't make the music good, players do. Heck, the Beatles used 4 tracks, not exactly the greatest recordings around, but for 4 track recordings they certainly do hold there own.

[GZsound]

Dizzie gillepsie played an old beat up horn, and it sounded great.
If you are good at what you work with, then what you work with is good.
Sorry for the zen moment.

You make the point perfectly. I always point out that my 1949 Super Balanced Action Selmer tenor that I bought in 1961 works just fine and I can't imagine what having the "next big thing" would do for me.

Look at the lowly SM57. It has been on more hit records than any other mic in history, by far.

[cool skill]

I just found out that the $200 monitors I purchased won't work without a power amp. This is quite upsetting news as I spent all my dough.
Can anybody tell me what low cost power amp will work well?


MICROPHONE: MXL 990 $69.99
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=273156
MIC CABLE $15.95
http://www.zzounds.com/item--SHUC25J
MIC POP FILTER $14.99
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Recording/Media/Accessories?sku=421139
MIC STAND $23.95
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MUPMS7201
SPEAKERS: Alesis Monitor One MK2 Studio Monitors $199
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ALEM1MK2
HEADPHONES: Samson CH700 $39.95
http://www.zzounds.com/item--SAMCH700
INTERFACE: Echo Gina 3G $279.99
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Recording/Computer/Hardware?sku=700662

[sabianq]

what exactly are you going to be using your "studio" for?

are you trying to make money with it?

or is it just a hobby?

are you pod casting?

just courious

[cool skill]

It's to record music to be sold. Then get it mixed and mastered elsewhere.

[giovio]

Personally I do not think a mixer is an essential piece o hardware to start with, nowadays.
A medium-good sound card and a software like nuendo or sonar are enough.
A good sound card (A-D 24 bits) does the main job then the quality of the instruments you will use (a good mic is important to record vocals and acoustic instruments) are going to change a lot the quality of the recording, and also how you will pay them, :)