books as acoustic dampening

[sabianq]

i have an idea for acoustic dampening, i am in the process of building my studio (my roomate moved out..yea) i will be building in wall bookshelves in my control room, what do you guys think of using wall to wall and ceiling to ceiling books of different sizes to help control acoustics?

right now i just removed the carpet and am in the process of scraping the concrete floor. after framing in the wall for shelves and a work bench i will be covering the frame with sheet rock.
there is enough space to put in a small theater too. so i will be pre wiring the space for 8 channel surround.

i will be posting pictures soon.

thanks for your input.

[sabianq]

so here is the start of my mess.


http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/deskwall.jpg

http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/fireplace.jpg

http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/studio_room.jpg

http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/studioroom2.jpg

today, i finishes framing, electrical and started drywall.
the desk is almost installed.

[sabianq]

so, its day 7

i finished electrical and started drywall.

im going to cut into the white wall in the right for rack equipment. the back of the equipment will be accessible from the room adjacent to that wall.

http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/deskwal2.jpg


then soon i can move this down

http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/mixer.jpg

[vulcan_dc]

cool... u got a lot of space.... i am sure this it will turn out real nice....

BTW how high is that ceiling dude???.....

[sabianq]

the ceilings are 7 foot 8 inches in the taller part and the air vent that runs down the center is 6 foot 8 inches.

the shelving is turning out to be a real pain in the ass.
but i cant wait until its done.

[vulcan_dc]

<subliminal message> room resonance,...!!!???.... Bass traps...!!!!... may be a lot of them.... !!!!

;)

Cheers....

[sabianq]

"room resonance,...!!!???.... Bass traps...!!!!... may be a lot of them.... !!!!'

yea, tell me about it!

you should hear the resonance with all of the carpet removed.
i have a hard time carrying on a conversation, the mid range just echos.
very annoying.
however, i had to change the carpet as we had a flood and the carpet was ruined.

and since i pulled up the carpet, i decided to remove the old (cira 1960) tile.

i have new carpet i will be laying withintwo weeks.

i have been working on book shelves over the desk area,
i think books will work well as an acoustic dampening.

i do however plan to build bass traps and even am installing acoustic battons on the other side of the sheet rock.

the actual room that i plan on placing the studio needs alot of help.

but as for the control room, well, i think i should be ok is i employ everything i know and use information gained from the savy members of this cool internet forum i found called.. Audioforums.com

:rolleyes:

i will be posting more pictures soon.
either way,
have a good night.

[ferrencebeeb]

You could put a schroeder diffuser in or even set up your books so that they produce several Schoeder diffusers on top of one another.

I've put some links in - the bottom one will give you the best insight into these kinds of diffusers.

It basically entails using 'wells' which have different depths. The depths of the wells and the sequence of them will diffuse the sound. This means it makes it more uniform - without peaks at any fequencies.



http://www.silentsource.com/efs/razorblade_3.htm

http://www.silentsource.com/diffusors-rpg-abffusor.html

Quadratic Residue Diffuser (QRD)

Schroeder

http://www.acoustics.salford.ac.uk/student_area/bsc3/room_acoustics/diffuser_exam_questions_1998_2002.doc

[sabianq]

great information!
thanks.
I remember taking a class on acoustic diffusion, basicly causing distructive patterning by ambient reflictions,
i am trying to cause the same type of effect.
the shelving i am building is very HEAVY and extremly rigid.
the shelves all are different depth, 7 in, 10 in, 10 1/2 in and 11 inch. with multiple layers of sheetrock over cinderblock.

with the added books, i think it should work quite nicely.

[sabianq]

well, one more weekend and my mess just seems to be getting bigger. LOL

http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/house3/images/DSC01033.jpg

a guy down the street decided to tear down his house and build a new one.
he gave me his wood stove. all 600 lbs of it. so i grabbed some friends and placed it on the dolly and trucked it down to my house.
it was pretty funny watching us push it down the middle of the road.

http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/house3/images/DSC01041.jpg

so i spent the weekend sweeping the chimney and moving a wood stove.


http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/house3/images/DSC01035.jpg

here is a picture of the inside of the chimney.

http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/house3/images/DSC01048.jpg

so now i just have a BIGGER mess to deal with,
oh well, at least my studio will be warm in the winter.

[sabianq]

so at the rate im going, i most likely wont be able to use the wood stove to heat my studio this winter as the studio now looks like it wont be finished until spring.
my cat suggests that the wood stove willl keep me warm while im finishing the studio.

she has been a great help>

http://www.mindspring.com/~paradox/house3/images/DSC01028.jpg

[Koe Joe]

Kinda off topic, but the pics of your fire place reminded me of a reverb chamber that my friends are making in their home studio.

speaker on an angle firing up towards a mic at near the top of the chimney. A pully system too, to change mics.. Kinda Gnarly
A pointless re-amp?

Thanks for the pics... good inspiration for mae.

Your studio is going to be dope

word

[Jam Man]

Required reading:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071360972/ref=sib_rdr_dp/104-9130558-9717560?me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&no=283155&st=books&n=283155

Studio Design:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1860742726/ref=pd_bxgy_img_b/104-9130558-9717560?%5Fencoding=UTF8

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0916899004/sr=1-1/qid=1137785627/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-9130558-9717560?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Product Info:

http://www.lamvin.com/index.html

http://www.nonoise.co.uk/absorbers.htm

http://www.acousticalresources.com/graph6.html

[pawasser]

What is your nc goal for the finished studio? How loud is the ac? Does sound travel in the duct work from one room to the othewr? Do you know how to fix all electrical noise problems before you put up the walls? Also the low ceiling is not good for acoustics. Is there another area in the building with 12' or 16' ceilings? Can you build an addition? Can the floor above go so you would have 14' ceilings? The minimum you want is 1600 cubic feet and 60% of the linear footage should be covered with bass traps that are 2' deep at the deepest point. Look at top studios none of them have low ceilings. You may spend a ton of cash and realize that the finished product is way less than what you desire after you spend the money to build it. The human voice range is from 20 hz to 1000hz from bass to soprano and lows are wide and long 50' long or longer that is why they are less directional. If you want help with the design you can reach me at 610-440-2089. Don't make mistakes that will cost you money go to every studio with in 50 miles look at how the ceilng hight and cubic footage makes a sonic difference in the finished product.

Paul

[pawasser]

The electric should be ran with 12 2 bx for hum cancelation otherwise you will have hum buzz and ground loops also 3 breakers per room or more depending on the equiotment being used when it is done. Also no flourcent lighting at all only variac dimmers. You won't find them at home depot.

[sabianq]

actually, the house electrical is run through steel conduit which has a secondary ground. the house is dead silent (electricaly anyway).

but alas, the plan has changed. i am no longer turing my basement into a studio as my wife father wants me to tear down the whole house and rebuild it from scratch.

apparently the land is worth more without the house then with the house.
so we will replace the house.

no kidding.
I said I would do it if he paid for it.

and he said ok.
I nearly fell over.

He wants peliminary plans by march
I will submit architectual, structural, plumbing and electrical.

I will incorporate a dedicated floor in the basement for a recording studio and a home theater.

when i get some peliminary pland, I will try to post them

my lot size is 6400 sq feet, a lonf narrow lot 60 feet wide and over 100 feet long.

so needless to say, I am and will be busy.

I do intend to run conduit (as shielding) for the electrical in the house and ground the conduit to a secondary isolated hard ground.

[vulcan_dc]

gosh... that's shocker news.... u were so pumped up with this project.... sorry to hear about the change of plans....

anyways... pls do keep us posted on things....

Best wishes...

[dcwave]

Dude - if you are actually tearing down and rebuiding - I would recommend building an "out building" for the studio - keep it seperate. Go to www.johnlsayers.com a read everything there!

YOu could have a nice project studio, using some of the designs at John's site, and still have it be small enought o be economical.

[pawasser]

Use 2x6 or 2x8 no 2x2s except in framing the structure to hold acoustical treatments sush as resenators and bass traps. The key ta a low n.c. is layers and density 6" or 8" block filled with mortar or concrete then acoustical treatment on top of that. Not auralex but actually build acoustically correct structures to eliminate comb filtering flutter esco and eliminate the 1st 2nd and 3rd modes in the tracking rooms. You can use a wall made of 3 layers of 5/8" firecode drywall 1 layer of 1/2" plywood then a 2x6" stud then a layer of 1/2" plywood and 2 more layers of 5/8" drywall but block is less exspensive. Also you will need to glue and screw every layer of construstion to eliminate slap and rattle plus caulk all seams and stagger your joints. Also the BBC determined that any room below 1585 cubic feet is acoustically inferior and not acceptable for sound work. Also ceilings lower than 11' change the way sound behaves in the finished product. The higher the better. Building a studio properly is not cheap quick or easy but it is well worth it if you now what the end result will be and where you will be in the local, regional, state, country, and world market compared to other commercial facilities . Take a llok at every studio you can visit, and look at the designers other work and listen to how their studios sound. For example Walter Stork who designed the Hit Factory in NY, Michael Blackmer who designed our studio www.GargoyleRecordingStudios.com and CBS studios NY and countless others here is a link to his sight http://www.blackmersound.com/photo_frame.html Good luck with the project.

[pawasser]

I visited the John L Sayers sight and I would like to hear his rooms. Some of his methods are different than most of what I have become used to. That is good I like different designs. For example the sound of Avitar for tracking I prefer to the now defunct Hit Factory. Also Black Wing in London sounds awesome it is a stone room with a hand troweled plaster ceiling. Wow what an awesome sound drum tracks just jump off the tape at you. Though it is definetly not a transparent room verry verry colored. With things like Altiverb, and other such acoustical space reproduction mechanisims a neutral room is best in my opinion with a reverb time of .5 to .75 for most popular music for classical it is a whole other ballgame. Avitar has a slat style system with absorption and bass traps behind the slats. The sound is verry true and has just the right ammount of life. That is the sound we wanted in our room. Live end dead end is something that is good in certain cases but I prefer a neutral room with consistent sound throughout with the ability to change the sound of the room through variable acoustics you need the ability to change 20% at minimum of the surface area of the rooms 6 sides.