Athlon 64 Nightmare!

[judoair]

I just bought an Abit KV8-MAX3 AMD 64 Motherboard and chip from www.newegg.com (http://www.newegg.com) but it is not working and will not even boot.

KV8-MAX3 Mainboard
ATHLON64 3200+ BOX 2000MHZ
Corsair CMX512-4000 Pro 2X512
Radeon 9000 VGA
Seagate ATA-100 80G Drives OS and Record


Can any one help me who has some former chops with the Athlon 64 setups?

Thanks in advance!



[This message has been edited by judoair (edited 01-13-2004).]

[wogg]

Bummer...

Here's some standard new build troubleshooting tips:

Does it have power, perhaps a standby LED on the motherboard is lit? Is the supply responding when the power button is pushed? Are the power switch connections on the correct header on the motherboard? Does the power supply work with another motherboard?

If you've got the power thing straightened out, try removing one RAM DIMM and then the other to get it to POST.

Try with no drives connected (it should still let you get to the BIOS screen).

Then try a different video card if your still stuck.

At that point it's a toss up between the motherboard and CPU being DOA. It's rare but it happens.

By the way this is fishy:
ATHLON64 3200+ BOX 1600MHZ
The Athlon64 3200+ runs at an even 2.0GHz.

[xxkingxx]

unplug your power


wait a minute

then power up holding down the insert key

[judoair]

Your right it is fishy and I am the dumb fish who did the wrong typo. It says it runs at 2.0 Ghz on the box whew you freaked me out!!

Still no luck I tried doing all that stuff. checked all connections, used a different VGA card. Could it be I have the wrong power supply? Does the AMD64 need a more beefy PSU or just a 300W to 350W. I have a 330W one that ran my older XP-2000 fine.

Thanks for the help..

One other question...

I know the AMD64 stands for 64 bit VS. 32bit do any programs even use 64bit right now? Or did I just buy this thing for the better floating point hence running more plug in's in Sonar.

I just read an article on ram that says two dimms of 512 should not be run on this board and that it does not support dual channel ram mode like the Pentium 4.

Am I understanding this right that the AMD64 will not support dual channel ram at 800FSB? I need the FX for that that is $700 freaking dollars?

Did I just waste a bunch of money?

I want to get at least a gig of ram out of this system and dual channel ram support for running my Sonar and Giga at the same time with lots of samples.

[wogg]

No there is no software that takes advantage of the 64bit registers and instructions in the AMD 64 platforms, unless you're into custom compiling a beta Linux kernel.

But you did NOT waste your money, they perform very well in 32bit software (all current windows) and are just as fast as the Intel counterparts.

Your right about the memory bus being single channel, but because of the on die memory controller the latency is incredibly low and performance is not hurt in most tasks.

This Sonar thread shows the Athlon 64's kickin the crap out of all other chips in low latency audio performance: http://www.cakewalk.com/forum/tm.asp?m=34827

Here's a picture (Big thanks to Scott Reams on the cake forums for putting this together)
http://www.roadrec.com/S3TestLine.gif

[judoair]

What are you running Wogg?

I was able to get my system to post after switching 3 brands or ram and pulling one stick of 512.

It still seems kinda shaky though and takes a long time to boot up under windows. When I click on the start button it freezes.


We will see how it pans out otherwise I am returning this and going with an Intel setup.
I could care less about benchmarks if it won't run and is not stable.

I have heard that sonar is optimized for dual cpu use? Also I have been reading up on hyperthreading.

" , hyperthreading, or simultaneous multithreading, makes a single physical appear to an operating system as two logical processors. Most software today is threaded -- that is, instructions are split into multiple streams so that multiple processors can act on them. With hyperthreading, a single processor can handle those multiple streams, or threads, as if it were two processors.
Without hyperthreading, a chip would have to process the two threads sequentially rather than simultaneously. Or it might perform time-slicing, in which a processor rapidly shifts between running various threads at a fixed interval, Intel spokesperson George Alfs said."

I like what I see in the benchmarks but just testing latency and floating point power will not help me for running two programs at once. Hyperthreading will help me do that with or without the software being written for it becuase it can multi task from what I have been reading.

The benchmarks from Scott are cool for plug in based float point stuff but they are a mute point for me..

If I can iron out the stability I will see if my Giga, Reason and Sonar run better than my Pentium 4 and as stable with multi audio programs oepn and two cards in my system.

If it does then Intel is in trouble (LOL)

At this point I am not getting the best vibe from this, but it just may be bad parts.

Thanks for all your advice.

[wogg]

I run an Athlon XP 2700+ on a Asus A7N8X Deluxe motherboard. Been working fantastic from the first boot.

You're right about the fastest system in the world being useless if it isn't stable. It seems the Athlon64's are pretty finnicky about memory. Have you tried testing your RAM for errors (with a program like memtest86) or adjusting the RAM timings in BIOS?

Sonar 3 is well optimized for multi threaded use, but hyperthreading isn't true multiprocessing. The CPU still has the same number of execution units to use so the improvement is only about 5-15% in Sonar 3 relative to the 80-90% improvements seen by true dual processor systems. Also, many of the HT users are reporting stability problems, primarily with trird party plugs and instruments. HT is promising and can yield real improvement if programmed for corectly.

If you wish to read all the brain numbing details without the Intel marketing, here's a good source: http://arstechnica.com/paedia/h/hyperthreading/hyperthreading-1.html

[Conor]

How loud is an Athlon 64 setup, btw, as compared to a Pentium IV or 32-bit Athlon system? Thanks.

[Polaris]

Originally posted by Conor:
How loud is an Athlon 64 setup, btw, as compared to a Pentium IV or 32-bit Athlon system? Thanks.

I don't see why it would be any louder. It's just a chip.

Unless they have a fan the size of a Vortech supercharger attached to the heatsink http://www.audioforums.com/forums/biggrin.gif

[Alan]

2 things,with any powerful proc you should have at least a 400 or 450W Antec or Enermax PSU,not generic.Also yes,the new 64's are a little fussy about Ram and branded single sided DDR seems to be the order of the day.Here's some quotes from Mushkin regarding DDR and the Athlon 64 and some possible bios settings depending on the BIOS tuning (by the manufacturer), the read command is issued a bit too early and violates the tRCD. The workaround is to add one additional cycle to the actual memory latency, that is, a 2:2:2-rated DIMM will run stable at 2:3:2; a 2:3:2 rated module will, most likely, need to be set to 2:4:2 in order to run stable (where the latencies are CAS:tRCD:tRP). Bottom line is that when shopping for memory for the Athlon64, it is highly advisable and in most cases mandatory to only consider memory with a tRCD of 2 or, to make it simple, memory that is rated at 2:2:2 a the designated speed. Alternatively, registered DIMMs can be used as well without problems, even though they are slightly more expensive and will give lower performance.Here's a liknk to the whole artice(bottom of the page) http://www.mushkin.com/epages/Mushkin.storefront/4006b0db015632ce273fc0a8010205e9/UserTemplate/27

[Conor]

Let me rephrase that. :-) Does the Athlon 64 run much hotter than their 32 bit chips? Thanks.

[wogg]

Thermal design power is rated at 89W for all of the Athlon 64's (including the FX51). The 3.2GHz P4C dissipates 82W while the Extreme Edition pushes that to 92.1W. They all have heatspreaders for a decent interface with the heatsink and a large mounting mechanism so the Athlon 64 should have no trouble being as quiet as a Pentium 4.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/dwamd_30430.pdf

ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/29864311.pdf

[judoair]

I have been able to get the system to boot up now and I have Sonar 3.0 loaded...

Here is something freaked out.. I set the bios to do Q fan and when my system would go into sleep mode or sit idle for any time over 60 minutes the CPU fan would stop all together!!!!

Yikes!!!!!

Luckily I was baby sitting the system and was able to shut it off before it got to hot to melt the system down...

I thought that the fan stopping might be the new silent fan stuff built into the AMD heatsink and fan but I doubt it!!

I went into the bios and dissabled the "Q-Fan" and then I did not have that issue any more."

I have had some spontanious reboots while looping demos with plug in's from Sonar 3.. This could be due to an old videa card "AIW 128 Pro that is supposed to be a mass voltage hog.."

Only a 330W PSU on this one this time around. I will try a 400W or 450W with a different ram chip and a new better PSU.."

Mass plug in power in this sucker though..

running one of the demos that comes with the sonar CD, I was able to do 50 Lexicon Pantheon Verbs before the CPU even got to 98%.


So I guess it passes the floating point test in my eyes.. We will see how it does with soft synths and latency next..

I want to do my own benchmarks VS. the scott thing. I think a more real worls bench is in order in my case..

I will keep you geeks posted!

Later

[judoair]

I have been able to get the system to boot up now and I have Sonar 3.0 loaded...
Here is something freaked out.. I set the bios to do Q fan and when my system would go into sleep mode or sit idle for any time over 60 minutes the CPU fan would stop all together!!!!

Yikes!!!!!

Luckily I was baby sitting the system and was able to shut it off before it got to hot to melt the system down...

I thought that the fan stopping might be the new silent fan stuff built into the AMD heatsink and fan but I doubt it!!

I went into the bios and dissabled the "Q-Fan" and then I did not have that issue any more."

I have had some spontanious reboots while looping demos with plug in's from Sonar 3.. This could be due to an old videa card "AIW 128 Pro that is supposed to be a mass voltage hog.." I will try the VGA card that the bios manual says.

Only a 330W PSU on this one this time around. I will try a 400W or 450W with a different ram chip and a new better PSU.."

Mass plug in power in this sucker though..

running one of the demos that comes with the sonar CD, I was able to do 50 Lexicon Pantheon Verbs before the CPU even got to 98%.


So I guess it passes the floating point test in my eyes.. We will see how it does with soft synths and latency next..

I want to do my own benchmarks VS. the Scott thing. Nothing against his findings I think a more real world bench is in order in my case..

I will never need 50 verbs on any project so the real importance to me is how 64bit under pressure with 32-48 tracks of digital audio, Midi, Soft Synths, and Plug's will do..


I am going to go head to head on this beast with my Intel setup and the same parts and we will see what has it's advantages..

I do know this..

Via and NForce have come a long way since the dawn of Y2K...If this sucker can run as stable as my P4-2.8 or my old XP-2000 then I am sold...

It is going to take a bit more testing than just throwing up some demos and plug in's to convince me.. Most problems rear there ugly head when your deep into a session and you want to do a simple task..


[This message has been edited by judoair (edited 01-28-2004).]